Horizons University

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by salami89, Nov 22, 2012.

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  1. Pappas

    Pappas Member

    Sorry to disappoint so many in here but...I would just take out the "close to" from the above sentence....and here we go ;)
    This forum is known for highlighting this kind of institutions...and I don't see why this one should be an exception.
     
  2. tadj

    tadj Member

    Accreditation is always an important consideration, but there are plenty of foreign government-accredited institutions with low academic standards and some exemplary schools that are at the licensed status level, sometimes permanently. They shouldn't be trashed without a fair hearing. I don't know much about EIU. I just know that it has a legitimate license to grant an MBA in France, so I wouldn't immediately label them as a degree mill. If it turns out to be close to a degree mill in its conduct, I'll adjust my opinion accordingly.
     
  3. tadj

    tadj Member

    Also, if earning a degree from a licensed institution is so shameful, why do prominent U.S. states and world governments support this "quasi-criminal" activity every time they add such institutions to the "approved degree-granting institution" lists? Maybe, it's the "magical accreditation" view that must be scrutinized a bit more. Accreditation is super important, but the lack of it does not immediately tell you that an institution is worthless.
     
  4. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    One of the purposes of accreditation is to perform those (and other) functions. That's what accreditation does. It determines course content, the qualifications of the instructors, etc. in order to insure a baseline quality level. Without it you have no real assurance of any of that. This is why unaccredited schools are suspect, because no one knows any of this. I believe the expression is "Buying a pig in a poke."

    You seem to be making an argument for the idea that accreditation is unnecessary or not useful. All your little comments like "I know a guy with an accredited MBA and he can't even get a job." First of all, it sounds like a bullshit story. Secondly, you seem to be implying (assuming the story is even somewhat true) that the only factor in this equation is the persons degree, or that the degree is supposed to eclipse every other deficit. If you continue to promote this "accreditation doesn't matter" point of view I think you'll going to get a little push-back, from me if no one else.
     
  5. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    The probability is about 99% that it's junk.
     
  6. tadj

    tadj Member

    Kizmet,

    I agree that it is the function of accreditation. I disagree with the notion that our board members can do the pre-quality assessment job of an accrediting agency on licensed schools. That's my beef. Since these schools are not accredited, we need to be especially careful. Maybe we just disagree on the approach. You take the "guilty/suspect" approach, while I take the "innocent until proven guilty" approach to these schools, especially when a government agency is involved in school authorization at some level. If there are some indications of poor quality, I am happy to take back my more positive comments. My caution just expresses itself differently. Oh, I would never dream of taking the "accreditation does not matter" approach.When it comes to the market value of the MBA, it will really depend on the local economy context. A licensed business degree might work for you in some settings. I am just saying that it is not a black and white situation here. Also, anecdotal stories are just...nothing else.
     
  7. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    You are contradicting yourself. You first say that members can not do the necessary quality assessment of an accrediting agency but the n you say "if there are some indications of poor quality . . ." But there is no way to know if there are any indication of poor quality because no one is even looking or assessing for these indications and you've just said that you are not capable of doing it yourself. You are promoting a school, telling others that it's fine, no problem, etc. simply because you like to be open-minded about these sorts of things. You play pretty loose with other peoples money. I could possibly understand someone going to a questionable school if there was some sort of unique degree involved. Something that couldn't be found elsewhere. But you're promoting a questionable school that's offering an MBA, possibly the most common online degree on the planet. You're right when you say that different people draw the line in different places. I am not an old school "RA or no way" person but I see no reason to cross the line into promoting unaccredited schools. If you have some real evidence that this school has any substantial quality to it then you should provide it. Ans I don't mean simply saying "It's licensed" because that does not necessarily indicate quality, it typically just means that someone has paid a fee to a public office.
     
  8. tadj

    tadj Member

    I didn't say that you can't pick up any clues on a school. I just said that you can't personally carry out the task of quality assessment of licensed schools. If you had access to their online curriculum, you could pick up a whole lot of clues. But a quality assessment is the job of accrediting agencies. I don't like it when posters do this sort of thing on their own. Now, if you can find a licensed PhD granting school with a 3,000 word dissertation requirement, you have a very strong clue as to the school's quality, or lack thereof. EIU's page doesn't provide such strong clues. The listed coursework looks like the normal curriculum of an MBA program and the school has been endorsed by way of a French license.

    As you pointed out, the MBAs are a dime a dozen. Top schools give the best benefits to graduates. Outside of the narrow concentration of schools, it's anyone's guess as to how this qualification is going to be received. I am suggesting that the business world is probably not going to be engaged in accreditation research. An HR person might take a look at a website of a school, although I would be surprised. If they do, the French school is properly licensed to deliver the program. You can easily defend it. Am I recommending it? No, I have not taken the program. But I won't attempt to smear the school when I don't have all the details. Licensed schools can be good for certain purposes. Getting employed in top academic institutions isn't one of them. But business employment has a different set of criteria. A licensed MBA can give you some advantages in that world. Please don't say that I am promoting the school. I've never given it a thumbs up. I am neutral. If you can show that this school is engaged in murky practices in terms of the provided education, I'll go from 'neutral' to 'dissuading.'
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2019
  9. mbwa shenzi

    mbwa shenzi Member

    In addition to being accredited by ASIC, European International University is a member of the Accreditation Agency Curacao: https://www.aac.cw/members-list/

    Apparently, Bircham International University is no longer on the list, but on the other hand, Alliance International University (Zambia) is there. I don't know what the situation is now, but about a year and a half ago, when AAC was established (to cater to the immidiate needs of Global Humanistic University Curacao), the agency was not recognised by the Ministry of Higher Education.
     
  10. tadj

    tadj Member

    ASIC has some value for foreign institutions with solid Ministry of Education backing (for example, the various universities in Malaysia), but it isn't the kind of programmatic accreditation that would help EIU in transitioning into the recognized programmatic-accredited category. The same cannot be said of ACBSP, which can provide true benefits to business graduates. This does not show that EIU provides substandard material, but the accreditation claim is definitely oversold. That's why I continue to refer to them as licensed-only.
     
  11. tadj

    tadj Member

    When ASIC accredits a religious-exempt or a state-licensed school, it adds very little value. On the other hand, a university which already had government quality checks in another country might benefit from adding a British quality assessment seal of approval in the form of ASIC accreditation, even if it only serves marketing purposes. That's how I tend to see their "International Schools" accreditation procedure.
     
  12. Phdtobe

    Phdtobe Well-Known Member

    http://aiuglobal.com/tuition-fees-schedule/ If one was unfortunate and signed up with Alliance International University I am so sorry.
     
  13. mbwa shenzi

    mbwa shenzi Member

    European International University is also, it seems, an affiliate member of ATHEA, the Association for Transnational Higher Education Accreditation. Here are the full members https://www.athea.org/membership/institutional-members-directory/, including Business Schools Netherlands, Horizons University and United International Business Schools

    Here's the Board of Directors https://www.athea.org/about-athea/board-of-directors/. Business Schools Netherlands, Horizons University and United International Business Schools again.
     
  14. tadj

    tadj Member

    Phdtobe,

    Alliance International University has apparently been taken off the list of registered private higher education institutions in Zambia. I've seen them on that list at one point. They offered a huge number of degrees at absolute rip-off tuition prices.

    https://www.hea.org.zm/index.php/registered-private-heis2
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2019
  15. mbwa shenzi

    mbwa shenzi Member

    Alliance International was deregistered for failure to meet minimum standards. The sort of thing that can happen when there's a former St Regis University "Professor" on the Management Team.
     
  16. mbwa shenzi

    mbwa shenzi Member

    Here's EIU's license: https://eiu.ac/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/EIU-ACADEMIC-LICENSE.pdf

    Permission was granted to open a distance education institution as of 2 April 2019. In the license, reference is made only to the MBA, but evidently, there's a lot more than that on offer at EIU.

    Here's the certificate from ASIC, dated 05/09/2019: https://eiu.ac/eiu-asic/

    Accreditation period 2 October 2018-1 October 2022.
     
  17. tadj

    tadj Member

    mbwa shenzi,

    Even if they managed to extend their French license for a doctorate degree, I would stay away from such a program. Licensed school doctorates could really damage your reputation. The MBA is a much safer bet, if you intend to confine yourself to the business environment. I just hope that more schools will emerge with somewhat similar tuition prices and the benefit of accreditation. That would be ideal. Licensed schools can meet certain goals, but there are real limitations associated with them. If you're okay with the limitations, I have nothing against attending such schools for certain non-regulated programs.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2019
  18. heirophant

    heirophant Well-Known Member

    For me, ASIC is a red flag. I'm inclined to consider any purported "university" boasting ASIC international accreditation to be a presumptive mill. Again, that's just me.

    Regarding France, my understanding (perhaps wrong) is that higher education institutions in France award diplomas, not degrees. Degrees are awarded by the government, based on possession of a suitable diploma awarded by a recognized higher education institution.

    It's relatively easy and sometimes a fairly minimal process to get approval to operate as a higher education institution that awards bachelors or masters diplomas (maybe even doctoral diplomas). Local governments award this approval. It might involve a visit from the local fire marshal for a school safety inspection, but DL schools don't even need the fire inspection. I think that some local governments want to see qualified faculty and so on. Others just check to see if the application is in order.

    Getting initial approval to operate a post-secondary school is the easy part. The harder part is getting recognition from the Ministry of Education or whoever it is so as to award diplomas leading to national degrees.

    I'm unfamiliar with Horizons and EIU and have never heard of them. But a point of caution is in order. It seems that mill operators have discovered France, which offers them a very simple approval process which they can hide behind an obscuring wall of incomprehensible (to Anglophones) French-language verbiage and attitude. The French education authorities aren't much help in sorting it out since they seemingly only reply to inquiries submitted in French, and then only when they happen to feel like it. Degreeinfo old-timers will recall "VAE", the mysterious "Ecoles" that used to try to advertise here and all of the insufferable L-numbers that they paraded around that supposedly made the life-experience degrees they were selling RA equivalent.

    People may call me chauvinist for saying this, but people who don't understand the subtleties of a different country's education system probably shouldn't take the risk of sending large sums of money to strangers for something that isn't fully understood and is just being accepted on trust. Students really need to understand the precise nature of what they are enrolling in. This only becomes more difficult when there are different languages involved. This isn't a slam on France. I'm sure that my own United States, with its wide variety of accreditors, rankings and state-approval laws is just as incomprehensible to foreigners who aren't familiar with it.
     
    Johann and Phdtobe like this.
  19. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

     
  20. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    Once again you've expressed these ideas better than me.
     

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