Horizons University

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by salami89, Nov 22, 2012.

  1. salami89

    salami89 New Member

  2. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    I should add that I'm not familiar with the French system, and don't know whether the registrations they mention are meaningful or not. However, based on its having ECBE accreditation and being a candidate for ACBSP accreditation, I would guess yes.
  3. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    We've had previous threads on this school, including a post from its Academic Director in July 2012.


    In his post, the Director (who was in Florida) mentioned that the school (in France) was also working on DETC accreditation. I do not see them listed at DETC as an applicant - but that's OK. No school is so listed until it is successfully through the self-assessment phase, which (I read) is pretty rigorous and takes a while.

    I must say I find the school's mix of programs pretty unusual - Master's in Martial Arts etc. I assume ECBE accreditation only applies to the business programs. I wonder about the actual standing of the degrees - especially the non-business ones. I'm sure that Horizon's registration with the Ministry of Education is sufficient as legal permission to operate, but I'm conjecturing that it might not be sufficient to give Horizon's degrees the same standing as those of "mainstream" or traditional French Universities. In fact, I'm wondering what, if any standing these (especially the non-business degrees) would have.

    Perhaps someone from Horizon U. could comment on that aspect.

    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 22, 2012
  4. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Another thing. In order to accredit a school's business programs, ACBSP requires that a school has either institutional accreditation OR sufficient degree-granting authority in its own country. In the past, it has considered Swiss Cantonal permission to be sufficient. Some other organizations do not and argue that such schools, while legal, are basically "unaccredited" and may be offering degrees with little or no standing.

    I'm not suggesting that ACBSP would accredit a sub-standard business program - that wouldn't happen in a million years! What I am suggesting is - that organization marches to its own drummer on the "sufficient degree-granting authority" definition and Horizons may be a situation subject to various interpretations. If so, varying views would apply in spades to the non-business programs, that have no programmatic accreditation.

    Who's to say that NACES-members, UK NARIC and others who make this kind of decision might not recognize some or all of Horizons' degrees? (Come to think of it, UK-NARIC, the foremost UK authority on degree recognition doesn't recognize DETC or other NA degrees either...Something to think about. )

    Just wondering....

    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 23, 2012
  5. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    From Bears Guide, 15th edition (8 years ago); I have not paid attention since then: "When a reader visited the campus address in Paris, he found two businesses in the building: a driving school and a hairdresser. We do not know which one encompasses the university, which does not seem to have a listed telephone in Paris. On one page of their Web site, they claim that there is no such thing as accreditation in Europe and therefore they are not accredited. On another page, they claim that they are fully accredited by the APIX Institute, an organization we have never heard of, and cannot locate."
  6. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Hmph! And I was worried WES or UK-NARIC might not recognize them! What was I thinking? :sad:

    Case closed - thanks, Dr. Bear.

    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 24, 2012
  7. Breizhou

    Breizhou Member

    Horizons does not seem accredited to grant state-approved degrees. First it is not a state "Université" so it cannot award state degrees.

    Secondly none of its degrees appear in the database of state-approved degrees for private institutions.

    The only place I can find a reference of Horizons is in the database of non-profit organization where it declared two entities with the same name : HORIZONS UNIVERSITY - INSTITUT PRIVE D'ENSEIGNEMENT SUPERIEUR ET DE RECHERCHE INTERNATIONAL.

    In France state accredit degrees are only necessary for regulated jobs (medecine, childcare, school teacher...) in other cases the employer or school decides. Concerning Horizons their programs might be good and solid but up until now the content & level of their degrees is not "accredited" by a state authority (diplôme reconnu par l'état).

  8. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Thanks, Breizhou. Just as I thought.

    No state recognition in France. 100% "legal," though, as is the unrepentant mill, École Supérieure Robert de Sorbon, on which we have many, many threads. That particular beast (ESRDS) doesn't have programmatic accreditation, though. Yes, ACBSP definitely marches to its own idiosyncratic drummer, as far as "sufficient degree-granting authority" goes, for overseas schools! YEOW!

    I'm only mildly surprised. Another case of good program (it had better be) but problematic degree. School is "legal" but degrees have no standing. School lacks any vestige of institutional accreditation or its equivalent. One might as well try one's luck with a California BPPE-approved degree as one of these babies!

    I don't care how many programmatic imprimaturs these degrees carry -- I figure they're very unlikely to get US equivalency / recognition from NACES-members or ACCRAO. These good programs are all for naught because the school itself is a nonentity.

    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 30, 2012
  9. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    In France there is law that allowing private education colleges to exist as long as they don't award National Format Degrees.

    Some of the private providers of education award their own format of degrees and seek
    recognized accreditation of their programs elsewhere.

    Students of well established private ecoles in France reported problems of recognition of their degrees outside France, as these long existing private Ecoles that many of them under supervision of an Academy do have recognition among French employers.

    Only providrs who are acredited by State may issue French National Standard Degrees and these are recognized in other countries and also positively evaluated by NARIC, WES, ECE etc.

    Comparing their tuition to lets say fully recognized University of London or UNISA I would elect the other two at this time.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 3, 2012
  10. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    ECBE accreditation and being a candidate for ACBSP accreditation is a mark of quality of their Business programs.
    I think maybe some NACES member agencies based on that may provide a positive report.
  11. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Which ones do you think are most likely to evaluate them as such, and why do you think so?
  12. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    Not necessarily. ACBSP itself says:

    So there is no assurance that Horizons will eventually receive ACBSP accreditation, and even if it does, it could take years.

    Also, note that ACBSP is only evaluating Horizon's business programs. Even if Horizon does eventually get ACBSP accreditation, this accreditation will not apply to their non-business degrees, like their MFA in Filmmaking or the MA in Martial Arts.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 3, 2012
  13. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    indeed. To quote Mick Jagger, "You can't always get what you want" :smile: .

    I'm not sure at all that they'll get ACBSP acceditation- but even in the unlikely event they do, the degrees will remain problematic, as discussed before. The non-business degrees could be worse than problematic; they seem so to me right now.

    Another thing that gets me is the school in France, director in Florida thing. ESRDS and Jean Prade worked exactly the same way - before Prade goeth for his fall (fraud conviction) anyway. As I see it, this is a very iffy school, just French enough to be legal - in France, that is. Contrary to another poster's expectations, I can't see any NACES-member evaluator according a worthwhile equivalency.

    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 3, 2012
  14. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    I think GSA out of Redondo Beach, CA.

    I have a friend who claims that they evaluated his European University MBA as US Accredited University graduate.

    I think there was a discussion about European University accreditation.
  15. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Fair enough. I know that different evaluators sometimes come up with very different reports, so that's why I asked.
  16. HorizonsU

    HorizonsU New Member

    Hi, I am the President of Horizons University and I have already written to John Bear who very unpolitely replied he is not responsible for what is written in his books (this is really amazing!!!) and that he was not aware of the defamatory statements made against Horizons (he put us under the diploma mill category). He added he would pass my message on and of course I never heard back. So what are you trying to do here? The address you went to was evidently wrong. We used to have an office there and in Paris, inside the building. In Paris, an address often corresponds to a building AND to surrounding shops, stores or other businesses such as hairdressers!!! Today we have anew address where such confusion would not arise: 5 rue Conté - 75003 Paris. And we have a 2-acre campus in the Loire region. We are fully approved by the French Ministry of Education to deliver both online and on campus programs and we are accredited by ECBE. By end of 2013 we will be accredited by ACBSP. You can see our candidacy status in their website? If you don't make proper corrections to your defamatory statement I will have to take legal action. You should always do proper research before publishing any random information that hurts others. I am not sure that will make you look good at all either!
  17. HorizonsU

    HorizonsU New Member

    Hi Johann, I am the President of Horizons University and I am surprised about your "short cut" interpretation. See my reply to John Bear below. I don't understand these interpretations that are very derogatory while just sending us emails and checking our evidence would be a much better approach! We are based in France and NOT Florida! Our Academic Director was (he is no longer with Horizons) based in Florida to have easier access to US accreditations agencies such as ACBSP and DETC. We are legally registered with the French Ministry of Education and already secure a European accreditation (ECBE) and are official candidates for ACBSP as you can see in their web site. I would invite everyone to visit us in PAris: 5 rue Conté - 75003 Paris. This is much better than trying to guess and for whatever reasons you have (?) publish wrong information. Thank you.
  18. HorizonsU

    HorizonsU New Member

    CalDog, we are scheduled to be accredited in 2013. Instead of writing your interpetations, why don't you contact ACBSP and ask them? Much easier and RELIABLE information. Yes they only accredit business degrees. We will secure institutional accreditation this year from another agency that all recognize all degrees. But as we are recognized by the French Ministry of Education and get nearly inspections, we do not have the obligation to do so. Thank you for being more precise and curious before publishing your personal conclusions. Happy New Year.
  19. HorizonsU

    HorizonsU New Member

    Breizhou, yes you are right. Good research! And this is why we are securing accreditation from other countries and at the European level. There are other very good schools in France who had to follow the same pathway. For your information: once we get ACBSP accreditation, we can ask the French Government to "validate" our degrees which will become equivalent to State Degrees, like any other university.
  20. NMTTD

    NMTTD Active Member

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