Horizons University

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by salami89, Nov 22, 2012.

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  1. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly

    That's not true, there are a number of schools outside the U.S. that have institutional accreditation from American agencies. However, I do agree with you that there's no reason that institutions outside the U.S. should get American accreditation (unless Americans are their target market, and perhaps not even then).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 3, 2015
  2. Phdtobe

    Phdtobe Well-Known Member

    Athabasca in Canada has regional accreditation from the US.
    Accreditation : Athabasca University
    A side note: Athabasca is facing financial difficulties. It may merge with Ucalgary or stop offering distance education outside of Alberta. Like Uphoenix, AthabascaU stop being innovative and creative. Thus losing its leadership position.
     
  3. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly

    Interesting. I'm not sure why it would help to stop offering programs outside Alberta. Once upon a time I would have been interested in their EdD program, but it was way overpriced. If they're not making a profit off of the students who pay sticker price, I can't imagine on what they're blowing all that money.
     
  4. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    It's hard to feel good about a school whose degrees are not recognized in the country in which they're issued, regardless of how many hobs people might get.
     
  5. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    ACBSP is certainly an indicator in your favor. However, it is programmatic, not institutional accreditation. As for ECBE, I don't really have an opinion on them either way. However, as I look at their list of accredited institutions I don't see very many large scale players in the European Higher Ed scene. Quite the contrary, in fact, I see a fair number of Russian and Ukrainian schools with very little press save for their English facing websites urging me to enroll in their programs to earn my degree. The only immediately recognizable name on the list (to me) is Tiffin University.

    That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with ECBE, mind you. But it doesn't appear to be the gold standard (nor does it really claim to be) for European Business Education. In fact, a fair number of the ECBE institutions (like Geneva Business School) are in the same boat as Horizons (not approved to award degrees in their country of origin but claiming authority to award degrees that are recognized in other countries).

    Just because there are many institutions like yours in France does not mean that your institution is legitimate. So far we've had one person claim to contact the Ministry of Education and state that the registration number does not indicate approval and confirm that Horizons is, in fact, not recognized.

    From Horizons all we have are self-serving statements to the contrary.

    Kindly point us to a place on the web, if you can, where we can verify your statements. Otherwise, you'll have to simply understand why we might feel Zazu's statement sounds a bit closer to reality than yours.

    That isn't my, or anyone here's, problem. We are discussing whether Horizons offers a legitimate degree. So far, all signs raise significant questions on that point. Which means that a person from the U.S., Canada or the UK (to name only a few) who obtain a Horizons credential could very well find it useless once they have their degrees evaluated by third party evaluators.

    I care more about consumers getting screwed over than the impact it has on your business. If you ultimately prove that your institution has the legal authority to award degrees and that those degrees would receive favorable evaluations from a service like WES then I think I, and likely others, would be willing to sit back and shut up. But we're not going to take you at your word.

    Oh, and also, constantly using the phrase "defamatory" doesn't not make these statements so.

    Student satisfaction is not assurance of institutional quality. But thanks for playing.


    Patently false. Deakin University (Australia) previously had DETC (now DEAC) accreditation. International Cayman College (Cayman Islands) is accredited through ACICS. Athabasca University (Canada) has regional accreditation.

    So, your statement is simply false.

    You're right. I think the obvious answer to a French-based school would be French accreditation. After that is secured, UK accreditation and so on and so forth.

    I don't know the intricacies of French accreditation and degree approval. So I would recommend to anyone considering Horizons to not contact the school and listen to their sales pitch. The first call that should be made is to the French Ministry of Education. If they confirm that Horizons is not approved to award degrees (as a private university, it is obviously not a state university) then I would suggest moving elsewhere.

    Just because someone, somewhere got a job with a degree does not make the degree legitimate.
     
  6. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    Also, UNISA was once DEAC (DETC) accredited until they (presumably) found it to be unnecessary or not worth the trouble.
     
  7. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    I dare say it all reminds me of an episode of The Simpsons where it is pointed out that the liquor license of Moe's Tavern expired in 1973, is only valid in Rhode Island and was, in fact, signed by Moe.

    I think it novel that lacking authority to award degrees (any degrees, not just "state" degrees) in one's country of origin is a minor impediment to, well, offering degrees. I have no doubt that such an arrangement is structured in a manner that is legal. But legal doesn't always imply "accepted" or "reputable" or even "a good idea."

    But hey, if you really want to earn a degree from Horizons, I say go for it. Just make sure you properly verify all of the claims made by the university prior to giving them a cent. And understand the very likely limited utility of this degree if your employer or school requires a third party verification.
     
  8. mbwa shenzi

    mbwa shenzi Member

    What, exactly, does that mean? As you can see on their website, this is what they have to say about ASIC accreditation and degree-awarding powers:

     
  9. mustafa

    mustafa New Member

    Can I know your feedback regarding European International University accreditations as well? I have visited their website and I can see very organized university. Registered, recognized, accredited and have a good professional memberships, their policy clearly specify their procedures and exposes their board. My question just to know what is the system in France related to private university and what is the rules that should be consider when we say whether any private university in France is accredited or not.
     
  10. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    Can you provide a link?
     
  11. tadj

    tadj Member

    Mustafa,

    I've briefly covered European International University (eiu.ac) on one of the earlier threads on this board. Here's what I wrote;

    "European International University (EIU) offers an affordable online MBA program, which appears to be licensed by the French Ministry. However, the license does not equal to accreditation on par with public French institutions. Nevertheless, the status takes care of the legality aspect. Their programmatic accreditation (ASIC) is kind of controversial, although it is not entirely fake."

    The degree might not be recognized by a foreign degree evaluation service, although you might attempt to defend it within the business context due to the EIU's legal degree-awarding status in France. It is not equivalent to a regular degree from a French public institution. As for ASIC, it does not bestow institutional accreditation. It can only offer programmatic accreditation. The better non-British ASIC schools have full degree-awarding approval from their own Ministry of Education. EIU does not have that luxury, as it functions more like a licensed private business school in France.

    They are quite clear about their status on the website;

    "European International University (EIU) – Paris is a private, independent higher education provider. EIU – Paris offers higher education programmes that are different from the French National Curricula and Programmes leading to French Government accredited university qualifications, which falls under the French Public Higher Education sector."
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2019
  12. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    Wow. Are you a lawyer? When I cut through all padding in your verbiage what I see is "Degrees from this school are close to worthless." In this day and age where there are so many online degree programs available it totally escapes me why someone would gravitate to a school that is in any way questionable. I'm not trying to pick a fight here but it seems like you're bending over backwards to sugar coat reality.
     
  13. mustafa

    mustafa New Member

    Thanks Tadj
     
  14. tadj

    tadj Member

    Kizmet,

    All the verbiage does not indicate that the degree is close to worthless. I just like to provide full information. Sorry, if that seems like too much. There are plenty of private higher education establishments in France. This one seems okay to me with the caveat that it is licensed as opposed to accredited. They don't charge a whole lot for their degree. The place will probably attract students from disadvantaged backgrounds due to the low tuition. Are there tons of better schools? Of course! But some people may just look for an inexpensive business program. I don't understand why this board takes such a negative view of licensed institutions. I don't share that perspective. They may work for some people, especially in non-academic contexts. Personally, I would recommend University of the People as a better alternative for an MBA.
     
  15. tadj

    tadj Member

    A lot of the better licensed schools are incredibly expensive. I think it would be really foolish to pay a huge amount of money and end up with a degree from an institution that is merely licensed within a state, or a country. In that sense, I agree with you, Kizmet. However, I still think that there is an argument to be made for attending an inexpensive licensed school, especially when you're on a limited budget (for example, you reside in Bangladesh) and the field in which you plan to get the degree is not heavily regulated. Of course, you need to be aware of all the limitations. But until we see accredited 1,500 Euro MBA offers, I could understand why someone might choose that route.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2019
  16. Pappas

    Pappas Member

    Recently I have noticed they have a collaboration with a Greek college and the advertised fees are around 9000 euros.
    I understand your point of view, but it seems they are counting on the people's 'ingnorance' on what this degree stands for... ;)
     
  17. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    I have to admit that I know next to nothing about the French system of higher ed and how it works. It’s likely to be unfair to impose US standards on a non-US system. But when I hear that other schools are unlikely to accept the credits in transfer or accept the degrees as equivalent to their own then we are not just saying the school is inexpensive, we are saying it is substandard. At that point I am out. I would never recommend a substandard school.
     
  18. tadj

    tadj Member

    Pappas,

    You're right. The fee for the local Greek program is outrageous considering their status. The sad reality is that outside of the world's top MBA programs, it's really hard to to talk about extensive future benefits associated with any MBA degree, even backed by accreditation. Most schools exaggerate the benefits associated with degree attainment and promise a bright future for all the participants. I've met accredited MBA degree graduates with little prospects in the marketplace. Obviously, the institutional accreditation of a school can potentially open more doors, but we're talking about mere potential here, especially in the business world with currently operating HR departments. They rarely know the difference between private government-licensed and public accredited institutions in France. It's not like you're engaging in any deception by putting the MBA from a French government-licensed school on your resume, especially if you reside in a place where such a move would not be a violation of a local law. That's all I am saying. It would be a different story, if you literally bought your degree from a shady Pakistan trail institution. But if you can somehow benefit from a 1,500 Euro budget degree and find relevant course content, I say 'all the power to you.' It's certainly better than getting a fancy 60,000 USD degree (average cost of an MBA) and ending up unemployed.

    Kizmet,

    Substandard is a good description, if you could easily discern the precise course content at EIU and determine that it is poor quality. I don't have such abilities. We would need such access, or some input from graduates of their programs to assess such things. I try not to engage in virtual course assessments, especially without seeing their course materials. Also, keep in mind that some people won't need a degree evaluation in professional settings. An even smaller number will attempt to get transfer credit for the MBA. So yes, if it is substandard, you have a point....but it's up for debate. In my country, the MBA isn't even a degree, so everyone needs to weigh the pros and cons in their specific context. An American with a pocket full of cash (I am sounding like Rage Against the Machine here) will be a different situation from a poor citizen of Kenya.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2019
  19. mustafa

    mustafa New Member

    Thank Tadj very much, for spotlighting and distinguishing all these situations.
     
  20. mbwa shenzi

    mbwa shenzi Member

    I think it's interesting that you can have a look at a sample diploma and transcript.

    https://eiu.ac/documents/Award-Transcript-Samples.pdf

    I think it's good that reference is made (in the diploma) to chapter IV of the French law on higher education, but it would have been nice if it also had been clearly stated that this chapter deals with private institutions.
     

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