Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by jfosj, Apr 10, 2016.
It's just amazing!
Euclid IS NOT affiliated with the UN. The only thing that they did is to have the agreement signed by the Euclid countries registered at the United Nations: https://treaties.un.org/doc/Treaties/2011/08/20110817%2003-22%20PM/Other%20Documents/COR-Reg-49006-Sr-61352.pdf
UPeace on the other hand was created by a General Assembly Resolution unanimously approved, which some could argue can be considered soft law in international relations. Nevertheless, no GA resolution is legally binding so there’s a need for official accreditation if the university want to make sure that its graduates’ degrees are recognized in other countries.
SFIA - I'm getting curious. The school offers degree programs. OK, it doesn't have RA or NA accreditation - no problem. I checked the BPPE, from whom unaccredited schools must usually have permission to grant degrees in California. No listing for SFIA that I could find. I know the school is licensed to provide continuing ed. courses for the architecture community. But degrees? Isn't that another thing entirely?
I couldn't find immediate cause for a BPPE exemption, as there are programs in excess of $2,500 - e.g. the Green MBA. I defer to the experts here. Can you tell me how, at this time, this California school would be legally entitled to grant such degrees?
The SFIA address seems to have only one sign, a big one for an aikido dojo.
Deja vu department: when I visited the address used by the dreadful Columbus University in New Orleans, it was a large aikido dojo, where the people said they'd never heard of the university.
But wait: Foursquare.com provides this more detailed address for SFIA:
College Administrative Building · East End, 2021 Clement Ave Bldg 5, Alameda CA
It really is a huge building (picture:Maps, then click on the small picture).
And there may well be windows upstairs. Sounds like a 'field trip' is in order. Anyone want to come along? (Some excellent lunches in Alameda.)
So, what I'm hearing is that Aikido might be a front for diploma mills...
I'm betting that if you checked you'd find that every city that has a diploma mill also has an aikido studio. Hmmm, I might need to merge this thread with the Conspiracy Theory thread. rivateeye:
Don't know about aikido, but in the past, karate used to be a popular pastime for blokes with alternative higher education. Quite a few karatekas among WIDU andf IUFS graduates, for example and some of the karate schools they were affiliated with could perhaps best be described as belt mills: 10th Dan in a school you started yourself.
Euclid University and the Euclid Consortium are, at least that's what's claimed, two different things, although it seems to me as both trace their origins back to an agreement between the University of Bangui and Université Libre Internationale Bruxelles. Regarding Euclid and the Comoros, the consortium did sign an agreement with Université des Comores (yes, there is a university in the Comoros) in 2009 I think, but other than that, all Comoros/Euclid documents I've seen were signed by the former permanent representative of the Comoros to the United Nations. He was involved in the re-establishment of the university in 2006, and so was the current representative, if memory serves me right. I don't know to what extent the Ministère de l'Education Nationale in the Comoros was ever involved and I can't check with them because the web site has been hacked. However, if you search the web site of the government of the Comoros for Euclid, there are no hits.
Karate schools are a pretty excellent example of the sort of "perceived authority" that I think we should be looking at other schools with.
Naturally, we take issue with a school that is run by professors who all received their doctorates from that school. But people don't necessarily give unaccredited (but trying to be legitimate) schools credit when they have a completely legitimate faculty. Broader society places a lot of emphasis on the appearance of legitimacy (i.e. driving by the school to see if it "looks" like a university).
There was a gentleman in Wilkes-Barre who opened a karate school. He was Chinese. Had the long goatee and the accent and the whole nine. People flocked to him. Besides his school, all of the other schools were operated by middle aged white guys. People thought they were getting a more authentic experience if they went with him. The problem was that he attracted people from other schools. So kids with prior experience were showing up. What he tried to explain away as differences between his discipline started to simply be revealed as made up nonsense.
It did hit the local paper when someone discovered that his accent was fake, his family had been in the U.S. for generations and was completely Americanized and he had no formal martial arts education.
I also wonder how many snakes we would uncover if we started lifting these sorts of rocks in the yoga community...
Agreed, at least as far as karate and mills are concerned, there is surprisingly often a connection, topped up with a fake peerage or two. Some people use the term McDojo to refer to substandard martial arts.
JFOSJ, could you tell us more about your research? Is this an academic endeavour or a personal project? Have there been any intriguing universities you've stumbled upon and didn't know about before? Do tell us more.
I'm always a bit shocked whenever I encounter someone who is clearly lying about martial arts skill. I mean, I guess if you're going to lie about something the likelihood of ever having to prove that particular skill in the workplace is pretty low.
I had a co-worker once who proclaimed over lunch that she had a black belt. When another co-worker asked her what school or discipline she practiced she said "Oh honey, I don't remember it was so many years ago."
Interestingly, her husband was adamant that his membership in the Knights of Columbus was a papal peerage recognized by the British Royal Family (completely untrue).
I think some people just like collecting affiliations and meaningless honors. Probably a good indication that you need a real hobby.
In another news, Euclid website shows Fr. Cleenewerck hanging out with the new President of CAR. Impressive, I guess.
I would actually agree that Euclid enterprise shows enough apparent substance so as not to be dismissed outright. On the other hand, it is conceived and supported by bright amateurs like Fr. Lawrence, and its legitimacy rests most convincingly on CAR and The Gambia. CAR just emerged from the brutal civil war and is not really in position to provide much credibility. The Gambia appears to be run by an increasingly erratic dictator. Both are like bottom-10 less prosperous countries in the world. I would not invest in a degree from there unless purely for personal satisfaction, but would not necessarily condemn an Euclid graduate as a phony.
Thread bump....has anybody figured this one out yet?
I like what Stanislav said on Apr. 19 a couple of posts back, Bruce. That's as close to figuring out as I have seen - and I applaud his well-moderated stance. Very generous, but not excessively so. I think the story is long and complex enough for for a doctoral dissertation.
Euclid seems to have itself figured out. They hint at religious bias, among other things. In this, they note that "it is important to keep in mind" that a firm which wrote adverse things about Euclid was headed by an Israeli businessman and a British man of Indian descent, whereas Euclid's Secretary-General is a Pakistani, its two High Stewards are African Muslims and Euclid belongs to the Islamic Chamber of Commerce.
EUCLID vs Accredibase Verifile
I have, to my own satisfaction. In my opinion, Euclid's credibility as a university isn't unlike the Regency/Republic of Lomar's standing as a nation.
Republic of Lomar - Lomwiki, the micronation encyclopaedia
The people at Accredibase/Verifile investigated thousands of schools but Verifile was a background screening company with, at least that was my impression, limited experience of foreign higher education systems and recognition issues. Re Euclid and the Comoros, Accredibase said something like 'there is no university in the usual sense of the word in the Comoros'. They were wrong. The University of the Comoros (Université des Comores) was re-opened in 2006 and apparently still around when I last visited the Comoros in 2013: I was living in the same area of Moroni as a Sudanese bloke who was teaching computer science there.
Hmm. I've seen other threads on Euclid before, and I thought (but correct me if I'm wrong) that we had decided that Euclid was a mill.
Ted, I think Euclid holds a record at DI - number of "threats-of-the-week." We've had three, so far. Here's the third:
Now, if we keep going... well, there's no real point in it, is there? C'mon, guys. Ne verberare equus mortuus. Let's not beat a dead horse.
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