Northcentral U. achieves initial regional accreditation today

Re: Re: Re: Re: Wait! DWCox, don't go! This is important!

Bill, you obviously must know and trust Gus. What education does he have and why does he draw a blank on web searches?

Just curious.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Wait! DWCox, don't go! This is important!

Et Tu, Dennis?

As you are so curious, please allow me to answer your questions.

First, my education, as evidenced by my cognition and eloquence, is superb.

Second, as to drawing a blank on Web searches, there are two possible answers:

1. Because I have been involved with computers for many years (do the terms Sinclair, Z–80, Zilog, TRS-80 mean anything to you?), I am really that good (for understandle reasons, as Gus Sainz is my real name) at jealously guarding my privacy.
   
2. Your research skills leave a lot to be desired. (If I were to reveal a very, but very, simple fact that is a matter of public record, those who are obsessed with attempting to eek out additional information about me would only be made to feel all the more inept).[/list=1]

 

Witness Protection Program.

 

Protection? Protection? We don't need no stinkin' protection!

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Wait! DWCox, don't go! This is important!

1. 
   
   
   As I said, just curious.
   
   My research skills suck. That is why I rely on Mr. Google, Mr. Yahoo and several others.
   
   All I found is that I can buy or sell you on e-bay and buy books about you on Amazon.
   
   All of that is irrelevant if the only proof of education you have is a kindergarten picture of yourself in a mortarboard.
   
   That in itself is also irrelevant should you choose not to criticize other peoples choices in education.
   
   By making very public statements about others, one would normally expect scrutiny of their own record. Indeed, one should be demanding scrutiny, but you are a very private person. When the sun shines on you, you put on the shades.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Wait! DWCox, don't go! This is important!

Yes but if I told you what education Gus has then I shouldn't be believed because I'm not Gus. Of course, I'm not nearly as trustworthy nor as likeable as Gus especially when the topic is Gus.

BTW, how would you know that Gus draws a blank on web searches?

Just joking.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Wait! DWCox, don't go! This is important!

I looked on Amazon and couldn't find any book on Gus?
I also couldn't find any Gus Sainz for sale on e-bay?
Are you going to sell him on e-bay? How much?

I would like to warn other people of bad choices in education. Since I must provide my own particulars, I have a Bachelor's in Computer Science from UC Berkeley. BTW, why is that required?

Just curious.

 

When I looked on Amazon, I found four books by Gustavo Sainz and one about Gustavo Sainz. I didn't look into whether these are the same person (or whether he uses the abbreviation Gus).

One of the books is entitled "Quiero Escribir pero Me Sale Espuma" which translates as "I Want to Write but Only Foam Comes Out." LOL.

It might be interesting to buy Gus on eBay. I have a shed in the yard where I could keep him.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Wait! DWCox, don't go! This is important!

-----------------------

You Gus, are a LIAR!. I can only believe based on the conversation that I shared with Ms. Miller that you have purposely and knowingly presented wrong information.

I never EVER referred to myself as a doctor in any way shape or form. The term doctorate was used in our conversation but only in reference to my program at ACCS.
I NEVER once brought up the issue of national certification with Ms. Miller. She stated what I "quoted". She did advise that my application would have to be reviewed by the board. I explained that ACCS was TRACS (NA) accredited which is USDOE approved and CHEA recognized. No, she did not specifically state anything more. Knowing that she did not answer your intended question and in my impression understood you to be referring to national certification NBCC and AAPC I accepted the fact you received an answer not related to your question. Likewise, when I discussed NA and RA with Ms. Miller she did not reject the reality of gaining approval from the Board, but rather stated again you will need to submit your application and the board will review it.

If it really mattered I'd suggest that the three of us speak via a three-way call. But this would do nothing more than make Ms. Miller VERY uncomfortable. I will not put her in this position. If you are sooo uncomfortable with my writing and desire a three-way call, I will participate as long as she knows you are the one responsible for the call itself.

As a unethical behavior, I take extreme issue with this charge. I have never engaged in ANY unethical behavior. Reference that CRCC issue and I will tell you when the time comes to utilize the title doctor I will notify CRCC. This is the only issue you could paint as unethical, NOTHING ELSE.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Wait! DWCox, don't go! This is important!

Thanks for the flame, Wes. Is there anyone you're not angry at? Here's one in return:

In the course of your studies, perhaps you can learn to use the possessive properly ("NAZI's"), conjugate verbs ("proofs") and place other verbs into past tense ("dupped"). An occasional typo is one thing, but your writing is atrocious. (That means it's bad.)

A lot of people were highly suspicious of MIGS. Others were convinced it was a legitimate effort. I was willing to be public about what I thought about it on both sides. Unfortunately, it is you who cannot admit a mistake, even though you've made at least two regarding school decisions. (Or more, depending upon what Gus has said.) You're (at least) one up on me. (Except my jaunt at MIGS was considerably less expensive!)

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Wait! DWCox, don't go! This is important!

Referring to the ads that substitute your search item in their copy.

Search: "Uninhibited sex"

Ad: "You can buy or sell uninhibited sex at e-bay."
Capitalism at work.

My whole point being that if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen; what goes around comes around; people who live in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones and last but not least do unto others etc.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Wait! DWCox, don't go! This is important!

Credibility?

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Wait! DWCox, don't go! This is important!

What an interesting, albeit ungentlemanly observation. (Not to mention the fact that you forgot the part about “pants on fire.” ) How do you think other professional counselors might regard such a public outburst from someone who claims will soon be one of them?

Believe anything you want. If, however, you insist in claiming that what I am saying is untrue, perhaps it would help to provide specifics.

I never said you referred to yourself as a doctor. Reread what I posted (enlist help, if needed, to ensure understanding); I said that Ms. Miller referred to you as “Dr.” Cox. I simply wondered how she would get that impression (especially in light of the fact that you have misled others into believing that you had already earned your doctorate in the past). Now, if you are calling me a liar, and stating that I “purposely and knowingly presented wrong information” based on your faulty command of the English language and your misinterpretation of what I wrote, then you owe me an apology.

Once again, no one said you did. Please look up the word “surmise” in the dictionary. I based my conjecture on two main facts. First, neither Ms Miller nor I ever broached the subject of national certification in our conversation. Second, you have an extensive past history of obfuscating the main issue by bringing up red herrings such as this. In fact, the only reason you would continue to bring up this non-issue is to divert attention from the real issue.

The issue is whether a nationally accredited degree will meet the educational requirements of the Tennessee Board for Professional Counselors, Marital and Family Therapists, and Clinical Pastoral Therapists – Division of Health Related Boards for licensure as a LPC.

You have maintained that it will, that it is specified in the rules, and that you had spoken to and corroborated this information with the “necessary professionals with the State of TN.” In no uncertain terms you have repeatedly posted information on this forum that, ”A degree from an institution with NA or RA will meet the educational -- degree specific -- requirement.” [emphasis added]

In contrast, I have maintained that a degree from an institution with national accreditation, at best, may meet the educational requirements for licensure in the Sate of Tennessee as a LPC, but that ”you won’t know for sure until your credentials are presented to the board.”

WAIT A MINUTE!!!
Are you now telling us that Ms. Miller agrees with my statements? (Not surprising since I based my comments on what she told me.) Are you admitting that Ms. Miller said nothing more about your credentials except that they would have to be reviewed by the board? You are aware, (or maybe not, considering your continual state of denial) that you are admitting that you have deliberately posted false and misleading statements concerning the acceptance of nationally accredited degrees by the Tennessee Board for Professional Counselors, Marital and Family Therapists, and Clinical Pastoral Therapists – Division of Health Related Boards?

As you have already stated that I have accurately portrayed the position of Ms. Miller and the Tennessee Board for Professional Counselors, Marital and Family Therapists, and Clinical Pastoral Therapists, this is simply more of the same obfuscating prattling. Moreover, are you aware of the fact that the public display your inability to differentiate between facts, hypotheses, and conjectures does a great disservice to your alma mater and the credential they might one day grant you, if they were ever to do so?

I can’t believe it. There it is again. Once more you are acknowledging that you knew what I had posted was correct, and therefore your statements were purposely false and misleading.

It’s amazing how quickly you changed your position after having been apprised that Ms. Miller was frequenting this forum, that she would be reading your posts, and that this might have an impact on your application for licensure.

There is no need to trouble Ms. Miller further. I directed her to this forum (and more specifically to this thread) and she informed me she was accessing this site while we were conversing on the phone. I am sure that if she feels it is in her interest she will post a message here. However, as you now have acknowledged (twice, I might add) that the information I posted concurred with the information she gave you, she might conclude that there is no need. Moreover, she seemed quite amenable to my suggestion that she email both of identical messages and allow us to post her response.

Are you aware that the terms you chose to highlight in caps are contradictory? Once again, I never said you engaged in unethical behavior. I said that you chose to defy the code of ethics of professional organizations of which you are a member. And you have, in your words above, reaffirmed your intention to do so.

Now that the issue of whether nationally accredited degrees explicitly meet the educational requirements of the Tennessee Board for Professional Counselors, Marital and Family Therapists, and Clinical Pastoral Therapists – Division of Health Related Boards for licensure as a LPC has been resolved, perhaps you should look at some of the other qualifications. Has it ever crossed your mind, Wes, that from a personality and character standpoint, you may not be very well suited for a career as a professional counselor?

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Wait! DWCox, don't go! This is important!

Okay, having a Bachelor's relates to my credibility how, in regards to my opinion on whether Gus or Wes is being truthful. The way I look at it is I see Wes lying about what Rich and John said about the probability of Northcentral becoming accredited even after attempts by Rich and John to correct the misrepresentation he continues to repeat the lie. Then I see Wes misrepresenting what the Tennesse law/policy is and misrepresenting what Ms. Miller said. Wes then gets even more insulting and combative when he's caught red handed telling and repeating his lies. These kind of issues carry much more weight in deciding credibility than what school and degree people have achieved, IMHO.

The big picture is that Gus is actually helping Wes by letting him know that he may be embarked down the wrong educational path (again) and his only reward is that he gets insulted.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Wait! DWCox, don't go! This is important!

Bill

My credibility comments weren't about you.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Wait! DWCox, don't go! This is important!

-------------------------------------------------


Gus continues to misrepresent the information. Maybe Gus presents his misrepresentations more effectively than I represent the truth. All I am trying to do is present the situation as it occurred. Knowing what I know about the situation, I can not believe Gus is doing the same.

Here are the facts, as seen though my eyes.

Gus phoned the State of Tennessee and spoke with a Ms. Miller. After this conversation, Gus writes that he was informed by Ms. Miller that NA is not acceptable for LPC licensure.

I too spoke with Ms. Miller. She didn't even remember the exact conversation until I told her that Gus, referenced speaking with a Sherry Miller. At this time she identified herself as being Sherry Miller. I read Gus' post to Ms. Miller and after hearing the part about how a person could sue/petition the State she remembered the conversation. At this point Ms. Miller advised that she thought what Gus was referring to was whether or not a person with a national certification from say, -- NBCC or AAPC, her words -- would qualify for LPC licensure, to which she replied No! At this point, in the conversation, I clarify for Ms. Miller that ACCS is TRACS -- which is NA-- and USDOE approved and CHEA recognized. Ms. Miller acknowledge that NA is listed on/in the standards and went on to say, to say that with the appropriate coursework the board would review my credentials and application. Ms. Miller NEVER stated that NA was unacceptable! In no way, form, or fashion did she make any statement in this regard. At this point, I am satisfied that I Gus, obtained information related to another subject. Ms. Miller response to me related to NA was enough for me to believe that she did not want to ill advise anyone and thus replied, "You will need to make application, after which time the board will review your application".


At this point, Gus, apparently isn't aware (maybe he is, maybe he isn't, only Gus knows) that Ms. Miller misunderstood his question -- and in fact answered what she thought was an entirely different question. Gus then reports what he thought was a response to as NA being unacceptable for the State of Tennessee.


My point, is that Gus, apparently thought Ms. Miller answered his question, when in fact she was answering what she thought was another question.


On, another note, Dr. Bear and Rich Douglas both made the statement to me that they didn't think NCU would ever gain RA status. Both stated that NCU's relationship with SCUPS would play a large part in NCA's denial to NCU. I will never take back a truthful statement. If possible I will search AED for the same response which I remember Rich making on AED on numerous occasions. Dr. Bear however told me personally over the phone and thus I may never be able to prove my point. I am however confident that About.com or AED will -- if still available -- will support my statement.


So no one else on the NG -- imagine that -- is willing to remind them of this ill-willed statement, except me. So be it!

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Wait! DWCox, don't go! This is important!

Rich, it's about all I can do to get away long enough to post a message much less a perfect one. As I type my 22 month-old is napping and I haven't any idea when I'll hear him over the monitor. But truth is, I don't really care if my writing on this NG isn't perfect.

Now, about my having attended several programs. I respond and request a response from you, and Gus.

I spent two years researching doctorate degree programs which could be completed via the distance model prior to selecting Northcentral. Ok, my toddler is up. I'll finish the reply later.

 

Wes, there are a many who thought NCU would fail in their attempt to gain accreditation...........there were certainly more negatives and positives.........

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Wait! DWCox, don't go! This is important!

Wes, you just don’t get it, do you? The bottom line is that the Tennessee Board for Professional Counselors, Marital and Family Therapists, and Clinical Pastoral Therapists does not have an explicit policy of accepting nationally accredited degrees as meeting the requirements for licensure as a LPC. The only material misrepresentation is that you have been asserting that they do.

I posted exactly what Ms Miller told me: The only acceptable accreditation was stated in the rules (SACS and CACREP); any other accreditation would have to be approved by the board, as she was not in a position to interpret the rules as to what constituted comparable accreditation.

Your attempt to once again obfuscate the issue by claiming that Ms. Miller was answering a different question than the one I thought she was, or that you posed to her, is laughable, as the answer she gave me is the same one you have admitted she gave you: Your credentials will have to be reviewed by the board to determine their acceptability. Do you deny asking her whether it was possible that you could spend a significant amount of time money and effort without any assurance that the board would accept your credentials? (Remember, she might be reading this. )

The fact remains: There isn’t a blanket or explicit acceptance of nationally accredited degrees as you have been claiming. Any credentials issued by an institution that is not explicitly specified in the rules (SACS and CACREP) must be approved on a case-by-case basis by the board. Nothing you have posted relating your conversations with Ms. Miller contradicts this, quite the contrary.

Despite you best efforts, you cannot have it both ways. Either the acceptability of your nationally accredited credentials will have to be determined by the board (as I have maintained and you have admitted Ms. Miller informed you) or your credentials are automatically accepted as meeting the educational requirements by virtue of the fact that they were granted by a nationally accredited school (as you have been asserting).

Moreover, your attempts to characterize my statements as implying that a nationally accredited degree would never be accepted, or is somehow disqualifying, will fail. (Please note that is was in anticipation of just such a hypocritical move that I frequently took the trouble to highlight the word “may” in my statements.

Once again, and I quote, “a degree from an institution with NA may meet the educational requirements for licensure in the State of Tennessee as a LPC, but you won’t know for sure until your credentials are presented to the board.”

I made this statement based on what Ms. Miller told me. Now, how is this different from what Ms. Miller told you?

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Wait! DWCox, don't go! This is important!

Yeah, I remember when my kids were that age. I lost all ability to function in English. It was a "bumber, dood." (As if!)

I've attended one doctoral program, UIU. While I applied to MIGS (and was accepted as a degree candidate), I didn't conduct any studies there. I didn't even form a complete doctoral committee. And I only did it because MIGS represented itself as being authorized to conduct programs on behalf of the CEU, who would award the degrees. (And because I didn't think I'd return to Union, and because Sheila Danzig--who I didn't know, but others sure did--offered me a free ride.) It took a lot of us a long time to ferret out the truth. But there was no need to figure out NCU or CCU, was there?