DETC and RA

RA (like DETC) is a loose organization of independent schools. There is no monopoly. There is no vast conspiracy across all these independent schools. These RA independent schools compete far more with each other than with DETC. DETC represents an insignificant handful (number wise) compared to RA. It is ridiculous to paint this as an RA conspiracy that is trying to beat down the competition.

 

What, exactly, would those lies be? Quotes please.

Is it small minded to state that DETC degrees have less utility than RA degrees? If so, then DETC itself is small minded because they clearly recognize that.

Yet another excellent example of an ad hominem argument.

I could be wrong, but I believe that the hallowed RJT is a "she." Roberta, if I remember correctly.

That's ad homimen argument number two in this post, for those keeping score at home.

This, I think, is an interesting argument. A bit of a stretch in including the CA state approved schools, but interesting.

 

While I understand DETC university credits are not readily accepted by RA universities, that was a low blow.

Why have the forum? Agree with James or not, He has a right to defend his Nationally Accredited university. At least I hope he does.

 

Did I hurt the poor little policemans feelings. I'm so sorry to have hurt your delicate constitution. Poor RJT put up with more than you ever will and did it with pride and respect, only just wanting to have K-W described as better than a mill, no more, just that. Not the same as accredited, not a good school, and was treated horribly by you Bruce, and these others. If you can look in a mirror and see anything to be proud of you must be blind. Remove my voice as you will. As you say you are da man. No, democracy doesn't exist here. Prove to me how brave the RA's are. I know, why not just allow RA's on this web-site. Then you could all stroke and pet on each other cooing and saying you are so right, I know it, and so are you. Your world would be so safe and wonderful wouldn't it. Hot house flowers afraid to live in the real world. If you knew how small and pitiful this little world you live in is, I expect it would devastate you. 98% of the people neither know or care about this subject. How pitiful to have a life so small that to be a forum administrator goes to your head. Unbelievable!!!

 

OK, I have to join the DETC crowd on this one. RA schools have an ability to "protect their turf" as far as RA accreditation is concerned. They have no such ability with DETC schools.

Moreover, do you not believe that schools like University of Phoenix have become a signifanct voice in the decisions that the regional accreditors make regarding pure DL schools? UoP is a for-profit school and they obviously have a tremendous interest in decreasing the accpetance of DETC schools.

 

Jeff:

I think this forum is great, and maybe I took that wrong. I seem to do that here from time to time. It just seems to me that James is big on DETC right or wrong. He should be allowed voice that without ten different people going after him like he is preaching paganism in a Baptist church though.

The only problem I have with this forum is if you are not a part of this little group that think the same way then you get it from ten different directions. Look at how many people come here, and make a few posts and then leave. When I first come here I read post for a long time, and did not want to post because I observed how many were treated.
I finally got mad, and posted my complaints about the things I found out about KW. Now every chance Gus gets to throw that up in my face he does. Do you think any moderators say anything to him about his tactics? No, they call down James because he is a DETC to the bone guy. Who has run more people away from this forum?

 

The unqualified right? No, not here, since this is a private message board. However, he will be afforded every opportunity to do so, as long as he abides by the TOS.

My comment about banning him was to illustrate how Constitutional protections don't extend to a private website. Doesn't it stand to reason that I would have banned him by now if I was going to out of spite?

Although I've issued several warnings and closed some threads, I personally have only banned one person, a blatant mill shill who was bombarding us with spam for his "university".

 

No, it doesn't. If someone were to come in to your home and insist on endlessly espousing the merits of the Nazi party, would you allow them their right to "free speech"?

Show me ONE example where anyone here has said that DETC degrees are not legitimate. They have less utility. That is a fact.

For those keeping score at home, that's three ad hominem attacks in the last hour.

Well, I think that that is the reason that many of us post here. In the hopes that people who know little about DL might find this forum and will not be influenced by people who advocate degree mills or who misrepresent the utility of certain degrees.

And are you implying that the fact that most people are unaware of degree mills makes degree mills legitimate?

 

You don't think that clep/dantes tests are a valid way to measure competency? Hmm...AMU, which is probably the best DETC school, allows 90 credits to be earned through these same tests. Then again, if they allow that many credits to be earned through these millish tests, by your own 'logic' they can't be that good, can they? Let's do our own ranking system James, okay? We will rank schools by how many credits they let you test out of. Let's see....from worst to best...
5. Any of the big three. (up to 120)
4. Indiana University SCS, AMU, Montana State, quite a few others. (up to 90)
3. Penn State, U of Phoenix, many others. (up to 60)
2. University of Iowa (although they will allow all testing credits transferred if you have earned at least 12 credits through RA courses at your school, hmm...perhaps we should drop them back to the fourth slot?), Utah State University, many others.
1. Well, I didn't see any mention of CLEP or DANTES credit on Saint Regis University's web site. Nor did I see any mention on Kennedy Western University's web site. I finally understand what you few truth-tellers have been tellin'. *epiphany*!

Mr. RA? I kinda like that. LOL. The big three evaluate prior learning with methods (clep, dantes tests) that are accepted by many/most school (yes, even the superior DETC schools). If you are attempting to argue that an average CA or DETC graduate knows more than an average graduate of the big three, you are facing an impossible task. What is not impossible to prove is that a graduate of the big three does have more doors opened to him/her. You must know that if you are trying to get a state license, are trying to get admitted to graduate school, or (for some employers) are trying to get a job, regional accreditation is the standard.

No, no one is bullying.

I agree that individual study, and then testing out is not the best route for all people, young of old, inexperienced or experienced. Some people learn the best and the most when actively taught by more knowledgeable people. Teachers who can give feedback, both about what is correct with the students ideas and what is incorrect... but it seems there are some who don't seem to connect with either of these methods

Take care,
Tony

 

This "little group" (which is actually the majority of the members here) believes in giving people realistic information about the degrees they are considering. Realistic in terms of accpetance in acemdemia and in the workforce. There are people who come here to give people false information. Don't expect us to go along with that.

Uhmm.. James is still able to post, right? I assure you that there is NO ONE here who woud run some down for earning a DETC degree. To the contrary, I don't think there is anyone here who would not congratulate someone for earning a DETC degree --- as long as they understand the limited utility of that degree.

 

Thanks Jeff that's cool.

I hope that is indicative of the majority of the membership here.

I know some of the DETC students are not as well received here, but I have empathy for James. As a fellow DETC university student, I know the guy is woking his tail off and it hurts to be put down.

I don't want to see hard feelings because we are all in this together. The common problem is the degree millers who are probably loving this stuff.

Thanks again.

 

Limited utility indeed, 67% of all students wanting to go from DETC schools to traditional schools did so.The perception of the general public is that they are the same. In the private job market the reception to DETC students would be excellent. The percent of students going from lower tier RA/DL schools to upper level schools is not 100% but is less, as they try to transfer Clep tests and other tests to schools more resistant to this type credit. In reality the comparison would be more like 67% to 80-90%. A difference but not like as is told here!!!

 

Bruce, I have nothing but respect for the way you moderate the forum. I know you are more than fair, but it can hurt to be put down when your woking hard for something.

James is defending what his dream is. It isn't personal on either side.

Thanks

 

I’m with Bruce. It’s not illegal to yell, “FIRE!” in a crowded theater. It’s just that if you do, you better be able to point to flames (or at least smoke).

 

Scott

I think you are very correct in the first half of this post. The big three came into existence in the early 70s when our culture was undergoing rapid change, conflict and upheavel. I think WGU only succeeded because of the political backing it had. It would be difficult to duplicate.

That said they are superior to DETC programs because they can get you into schools and jobs that strictly require an RA degree. They offer people like yourself who have gained an education through life to acquire a credential with minimal cost and effort. If we are discussing schools that mainly judge learning by courses does it make much sense to compare it to one that does it almost solely by testing?

 

Sorry, but the burden of proof is on the one who made the statement: you.

There is plenty of evidence that degrees issued by DETC-accredited schools are, on the whole, less useful than those offered by RA schools. You continue to ignore that simple fact because it doesn't fit your agenda.

As for educational efficacy, can you please offer your support? I don't know this has ever been measured. John Bear's survey of admissions officials showed they think less highly of degrees accredited by national accrediting agencies. These are professionals offering their judgment; one might infer they find NA degrees less acceptable because they discount the education programs they represent. So the preponderance of the evidence is against your thesis. Do you have anything to weigh in the other direction?

 

Yes. I included ACICS and an ACICS-accredited school in the mix, with similar results to DETC and the DETC-accredited school.

 

Interesting that James now admits that DETC schools ARE substandard to RA schools in utility. I didn't think he had it in him!

 

How can you post constantly here and be utterly ignorant regarding TESC, COSC, and Excelsior? Because you clearly don't understand that these schools, in their assessment programs, do not "educate." They evaluate learning done elsewhere.

 

How many times are you going to say this, when it has been shown by Bear and by me that the opposite is instead true?

There are situations where a degree from a DETC-accredited school is not acceptable; a degree from an RA school is required. The opposite is never, ever true. THAT makes them substandard. (The degrees, not necessarily the education. But admissions officials seem to think so.)