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  1. DaveHayden

    DaveHayden New Member




    The Big Three are not schools in the traditional sense. Their whole reason of being is to certify learning that has happened elsewhere. For some one to compare any traditional DETC OR RA DL school to them is like comparing a cat to bird. They are more different than alike, but that doesn't make the cat better for having four legs nor the bird better for being able to fly.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 7, 2003
  2. Dennis Ruhl

    Dennis Ruhl member


    And which other ones don't count?
     
  3. kf5k

    kf5k member

    These three schools are part of the RA equation, part of the standard. DETC schools have no trouble equaling or surpassing this minimum standard. Therefore they are not substandard.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 7, 2003
  4. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    Which is, of course, entirely your opinion. Not fact.
     
  5. kf5k

    kf5k member

    Then go ahead and show what facts you have to show that the education from the Big Three surpasses the education available from the DETC schools. DETC schools send out books, administer tests, some proctored, and will require 30 semester hours or more of new work. What are the Big Three doing so well as to be beyond this level of quality?
     
  6. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    Since you made the assertion that the opposite is true, it's up to you to provide supporting evidence, not me.

    I can't believe you haven't figured it out yet, but when you put forth statements as fact, you're going to get called on them around here.
     
  7. c.novick

    c.novick New Member


    You want facts... 1. www.apus.edu = DETC
    2. www.tesc.edu = RA


    Quality avg. work per class a.) DETC = 4 quiz exams
    1 term paper
    1 proctored final

    b.) RA = 2 to 4 essay style papers
    1 proctored midterm
    1 proctored final

    I rate quality of learning a tie.




    Course material a.) DETC = current and state of the art
    b.) RA = older material

    I rate course material slight edge to DETC




    Delivery of course variety a.) DETC = minimal/ set program
    b.) RA = varied/ may take courses
    in other RA colleges and
    transfer them to program

    I rate delivery of course variety big edge to RA




    Student services a.) DETC = very helpful and convenient
    b.) RA = felt like a number

    I rate student services edge to DETC



    Total summary = slight edge to DETC university.


    I have studied at both types of accredited universities. The facts as I experienced them are above. However, this is a minimal comparison of a DETC vs. a big three RA and no way indicative of the many excellent RA universities. RA universities are and should be considered the standard.

    DETC is just not superior in any way to RA and DETC credits are not going to transfer easily, if at all to RA. = Fact

    There are some excellent DETC accredited universities = Fact

    DETC accredited universities have better acceptance in the workplace than in academia = Fact

    As long as you recognize it's limitations you can be proud to be in a DETC university. = Fact

    Those are some facts... :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 8, 2003
  8. DaveHayden

    DaveHayden New Member

    Bruce has nailed this one. James keeps misrepresenting DETC stature and utility. For some reason he believes because he thinks it is makes it a fact. Sorry it doesn't work that way and as long as you keep doing that people will call you on it.
     
  9. DaveHayden

    DaveHayden New Member

    So I think women are more intelligent than men. I pick out a 30 yr old bank manager, 29 yr old school teacher and 42 yr old author. I compare them against a 10 yr old boy, 21 yr old fast food worker and 31 yr old mechanic. Surprisingly the first group does better on IQ tests. Have I proven my point?
     
  10. kf5k

    kf5k member

    You cannot take a 2-year ( RA ) community college degree and enroll in any traditional ( 4 year college ) you might wish. The acceptance is less than perfect, but does this lessen the meat and potatoes education they offer? Despite not being seen as prestigious as their big brothers ( Traditional 4 year colleges ) they offer much service, and good, solid education. TESC-COSC-NCU-Excelsior are aimed at this meat and potatoes market, as are the schools of the DETC. Are any of these schools beyond the scope or quality of DETC schools?

    The DETC schools meet the educational qualities offered by these less prestigious schools handily. Degrees offered by these schools are not "Substandard."
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 8, 2003
  11. plcscott

    plcscott New Member

    I do not see what the big deal is here. The same arguments are being made about DETC as are made about unaccredited schools. It seems if it is not RA then it is either substandard, or trash.

    The argument about accreditation is oversight right? DETC provides oversight and standards, and is recognized by the DOE and CHEA right?

    It does not seem to be all about oversight, and accreditation. It is all about regional accreditation.

    This reminds me of the older people in the church who do not want to have praise music, or any new music. They would rather sing the old hymns while looking like they just drank a glass of prune juice.

    DETC is fairly new at accrediting at the higher level, but is there not room for them too? What is wrong with having another accrediting body?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 8, 2003
  12. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Correct, arguing facts as facts and drawing conclusions from facts is very nice and appreciated. Thank you.

    What I'm bothered by is some other people arguing opinion as facts and even after their opinion is seemingly proven wrong by the facts they continue to express the opinion as fact. Another even more popular technique is setting up strawman arguments then falsely claiming that the other side has argued this strawman statement and then tearing down the strawman. Once or twice I could live with but when it's repeated ad nauseum as if that would make it true, it does start to get old.
     
  13. DaveHayden

    DaveHayden New Member

    Actually you CAN take a RA community college degree and transfer in to prestigous RA universities. I know of just such transfers into Reed College and Georgetown University. Did you realize Harvard accepts CC transfers?

     
  14. DaveHayden

    DaveHayden New Member

    I am confused Scott. Has anyone suggested that there isn't room for DETC accreditation?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 8, 2003
  15. plcscott

    plcscott New Member

    If the big three schools were DETC I bet you guys would consider them degree mills. Since they are RA people do not only accept them, but also recommend them. I am looking at them now, and I think I will probably be heading to one of them after I take some test to see how I do. However, I do not think they are better than the DETC programs just because they are RA. You cannot compare RA to DETC, and exclude these because they are RA.
     
  16. DaveHayden

    DaveHayden New Member

    Scott

    I think I uderstand what you are saying, but it is false to isolate the Big Three and base an argument on it. If it is necessary to pick a representative RA school why not something mid-level? If a person picks and chooses their examples you can prove virtually anything.
     
  17. plcscott

    plcscott New Member

    Why all the arguments against DETC except to suggest that they are not as good? How can they ever get in the game if people are lobbying to keep them out? It seems if you think there is room for them then you would say they are worthy, and should be treated as such.
     
  18. plcscott

    plcscott New Member

    Agree.
     
  19. DaveHayden

    DaveHayden New Member

    1. The arguments I have read have been against the false idea that DETC is equal or superior to RA. I have seen many here say they would like to see DETC continue with the fine work it does.

    2. The fact that it is hard to compete against a entity that has a strong hold on a market does not change facts. DETC has done an incrediable job building the position they have today. I think it is likely the will continue to improve their position.

    3. They are definately worthy, but they are in no way equal. That is not a slight just the current situation.
     
  20. kf5k

    kf5k member

    If you are saying they are not equal in political power, I would agree. If you are saying the education being offered by DETC schools is substandard, I disagree.

    The standards of the DETC are approved by-GAAP/ CHEA /USDOE.
    The DETC accredits its member schools under this GAAP/ CHEA / USDOE recognition.

    Being properly accredited under this authority DETC schools and their degrees are not "SUBSTANDARD " but have met all required standards that apply. GAPP/ CHEA/ USDOE/ DETC.
     

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