ASIC and Warnborough University

Then this "average person" should not have the responsibility of determining the good from the bad, when it comes to degrees. The job needs better-than-average knowledge of the field. Maybe somewhere, there's a "degree in degrees" program. :smile:

 

The first time I ever busted someone with a fake degree (as a civilian) is memorable to me. He was a materials manager who worked his way up from an entry level production job. I caught him because they sent around a congratulations email when he "earned" his MBA from Almeda. Upon closer inspection it was clear that his undergrad was never actually awarded. He took a few classes at Binghamton University but never graduated. I gathered up my papers and called together his managers and my boss ready to commence the termination.

Everybody gave me a hard time. Why, they wanted to know, was I harassing this good, hard working employee? This guy who earned a series of promotions was well respected. Where did I get off wanting to fire him just because he lied about having a bachelor's and bought a Masters from a known diploma mill? His immediate manager was disgusted. He complained all the way to the CEO that I was being vindictive. No one on my side faulted me for bringing this up, mind you. And, on the operations side, I had a VP on my side who felt it spoke to the employee's integrity. But, in the end, he kept his job and he'd be here still if he hadn't moved on all on his own.

If you ask that manager about it he's sure to call me a snob who didn't like this guy because he didn't go to a "fancy enough school" (his oft repeated words). Ignorance is a major problem when it comes to diploma mills. But willful ignorance also keeps the mill operators in business.

 

Where I work I sometimes run into these guys (it's almost always guys) who are "blue collar engineers" Often they've come up through the ranks of the machine shop world and they can make anything from anything. They don't usually have the formal math background but they can solve any shop problem with a pencil on a napkin. They know how to look up everything else. I think of these guys like the Master Sergeants in the Army (I don't know much about military ranks so...). By this I mean they maybe outranked by other people (Engineers), but if there's ever a conflict between what one of the blue collar engineers says and what some college educated engineer says then that college boy better listen very carefully because there's almost definitely something he's forgetting. Typically they get huge respect. I've never known one of them to buy a fake degree so they look "better."

 

When I was with the University of Phoenix, I came across a faculty member with a doctorate from Honolulu University of Arts, Science, and Humanities. Its forerunner was Golden State University before that entity had to leave California.

No one wanted to hear about it or do anything about it.

Another tidbit: Dick Suhar, the man who gave away the download key to my Union dissertation (it was downloaded 67 times in two days after he purchased it) always claimed--and defended with great emotion--his doctorate from Kennedy-Western University. However, he never listed it in any UoP items (he was an adjuct there; probably still is) I was able to examine. As a full-time faculty member and campus chair, I had access to a lot. It's on his LinkedIn page, though. He's posted here as recently as 2008, and accessed the site earlier this year.

 

That's a real shame. Let's just defend a guy in his fraud because he's nice and works hard. This never ceases to amaze me.

 

Oh, Almeda's fancy enough - just not real enough. Hmmm. Wonder where "that manager" got his degree - Belford U.?

J.

 

Empire State College. In his defense (the manager, that is) ESC grads are very well represented in the operations side. And, I am told, that years ago many of them caught A LOT of crap about their degrees. The front office was mostly SUNY, Cornell, Syracuse, Clemson and Colgate grads. ESC was treated internally like UPhoenix is treated on the Internet. It was generally understood that an ESC degree might help you advance through ops ranks but would never get you anywhere in the front office.

The stories reminded me a bit of the sailors who earned NA degrees to make themselves more competitive for E-7 selection though those degrees would never allow them to be commissioned along the traditional route (LDO was still an option since they didn't require degrees).

So I understand why some of them might be a bit sensitive to what they perceive as degree snobbery.

 

So do I, now you've given me the background. Thanks. :smile:

J.

 

Because this thread keeps on going, I'm going to say this again: "Accreditation" as it is used by ASIC doesn't mean the same thing that it means in the U.S. Here it means the school is a legitimate member of the recognized community of degree-granting institutions. With ASIC, it does not.

For example, in the U.K., the term "good food" has a completely different meaning than it does in the U.S. (Over there it means you're in an Indian restaurant.)