ASIC and Warnborough University

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by Kay_Drew, Dec 21, 2012.

  1. Kay_Drew

    Kay_Drew New Member

    I don't know if this is the right place to post this, but I have a few questions. I have applied to Warnborough University as well as Charles Stuart University. I got into both schools. The former I was going to decline acceptance because I had heard they were not accredited. However, they have now gotten accreditation.

    The info is here: FAQ - Frequently Asked Questions - Warnborough College Ireland and here: Accreditation and Recognition | Warnborough College.

    Could someone please explain what the ASIC is. Is that an international accreditation? Will a degree from a school with that accredited be accepted in the US? Please, help me and explain it to me. I've checked the ASIC website and it wasn't clear enough.
  2. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    No - it will not. ASIC's "accreditation" is not quite what most readers of this forum define as such. It does not lend ANY standing to a school's degrees, or -of itself- make it legitimate for the school to offer them.

    ASIC started life reporting on British schools enrolling foreign students. It reported to the UK Border Agency and its accreditation primarily ensured that there were "real" classes, the schools were not hives of terrorists or undesirables and were not involved in illegal foreign labour scams or immigration-related chicanery.

    Most of the schools it reported on were not degree-granting. A relative few were, but ASIC's seal of approval had nothing to do with degree-granting authority. Since then, ASIC seems to have morphed into a company that markets its services in many countries and people seem to view it as "accreditation" in the sense that degrees of ASIC-accredited schools will have the same standing as the mainstream schools. This is simply not so at all.

    Interestingly, one (count 'em) school in the US displays ASIC accreditation: The University of Atlanta. This school had DETC accreditation for five years. It expires in 2013 and the school has been on a "teach-out" basis for a while. I guess they will now be enrolling new students once again, under their new ASIC accreditation -which lends no CHEA or USDoE standing to their degrees whatsoever. :sad:

    Here's an interesting quote from The U. of Atlanta Website: "ASIC is a member of Council for Higher Education Accreditation (CHEA) International Quality Group (CIQG)"

    Maybe so - but that doesn't make ASIC a CHEA-recognized accreditor! It just ISN'T! Check the list at Council for Higher Education Accreditation (CHEA) (2012)

    Here's the full blurb from the U of A site: Accreditation, Licensing - Accredited Online Degree - UNIVERSITY OF ATLANTA

    As far as Warnborough College and Warnborough University go: The College doesn't offer degrees - it can't. The University shouldn't. It relocated in Ireland some time ago and it has neither Irish or UK authority to grant degrees. Both schools have been much cussed and discussed in the various degree-fora.

    Charles Stuart University? I think you mean Charles STURT University - a well-known Australian school of very good repute. A degree from here means FAR more than those of the other schools I've discussed in this thread.

    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 22, 2012
  3. Kay_Drew

    Kay_Drew New Member

    Hi Johann,

    Yes, I do mean Charles Sturt University. I don't know why I stuck an a in there - I keep doing that. I've in fact been talking with my mentor already and have been approved. They were kind enough to defer my starting because of family losses and potential moving.

    Thank you for explaining what ASIC is. I did quite a lot of research and was very confused by it. I noticed the Atlanta school.

    Thank you for the information.

  4. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Sturt and Warnborough? Wow. I never thought I'd see this kind of comparison. Like apples and...well...road apples.
  5. Kay_Drew

    Kay_Drew New Member

    Helo Rich,

    I was keeping my options open, thus the different choices. I actually applied to Warnborough first, but went searching for another school after I saw they weren't accredited.then, it took clos to a year to get accepted to Sturt.

    Is it hard to get into Sturt? Dods everyone get in who applies? I know it's a good school, but how good of a school is it? I saw a list of notable alumni, which impressed me. I've always wondered, but didn't want to ask my mentor.
  6. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I suspect Sturt accepts all qualified applicants for distance learning. I could be wrong, of course, but I doubt it. The impact on resources to support DL students is really low and the revenues are both high and valuable.
  7. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Warnborough is not supposed to offer degrees but they seem to have mislead students in the past on this issue.
  8. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    They're still in the game, Bill. The Warnborough U. page says all degrees are issued by their partner organization, Warnborough College in Ireland. That um - institution, as we know, has no legitimate degree-granting permission from Ireland. I assume Warnborough does it this way for a good reason. If it were to issue so much as a single UK degree, that could lead to court - and possibly to jail, or gaol :smile: as some (old) Brits (like me) still spell it, under the Education Reform Act of -- I think, 1988. Yeah - it was 1998 - I just checked.

    Here - see for yourself. Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose, etc.

    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 2, 2013
  9. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    I guess that it shows that it is fair to expect people that have been dishonest scum in the past to likely continue their dishonest scum activities into the future. :(
  10. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    That belief works for me -- always has, in work, politics, money, wherever. And they (the merry men and women of Warnborough) will likely be cussed, discussed, pilloried and vilified in degree-fora until the lights go out....

  11. Warnborough

    Warnborough New Member

    Unless Warnborough College (Ireland) was entitled to award degrees as an independent institution it would NOT have been eligible to apply for HETAC or ASIC accreditation. Warnborough underwent intensive peer review and achieved commendable grades in the following areas: Premises (Health & Safety); Management and Staff Resources; Learning and Teaching (Course Delivery); Quality Assurance and Enhancement; Student Welfare; Marketing and Recruitment. In the UK, Warnborough has undergone (and achieved) several accreditations including Education Oversight for Private Further Education by the Independent Schools Inspectorate and met all their stringent requirements. In the UK, Warnborough prepares students for entry to UK and overseas universities. It does not offer any UK degrees, and it never has! Any institution that seeks accreditation should be commended not criticised.
  12. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I've heard from you before, Warnborough, in most degree-forums. I never bought it then - and I still don't.

    Only if it achieves accreditation -and if said accreditation is legitimate. ASIC does not give a school legit degree-granting status. It started as a UK Border Agency tool to inspect (mostly non-degree-granting) UK schools enrolling foreign students. Its main job (and yes, it was referred to as accreditation but had nothing to do with degree-granting) was to see the schools were not hives of terrorists or other undesirables, that legit. classes were being held and there were no immigration-related jiggery-pokeries, illegal foreign-labour schemes etc. It has now morphed into an enterprise that offers what it calls "accreditation" in several countries, including the US - making the schools that "buy in" seemingly OK to confer degrees when they are, in fact, not, pursuant to the usual standards of the country. "University of Atlanta" (the re-branded school previously known as Barrington U.) seems to be the only school in the US having bought ASIC "accreditation" to date. That school was operating on a teach-out basis as its DETC accreditation will soon expire. Now it is flying the ASIC flag-of-convenience, as if that meant its degrees had standing. In the real world, it does not.

    As far as applying to HETAC goes - as I said, an application means nothing. Acceptance means everything. No Warnborough degree issued in Ireland has any standing at all. Merely applying for legit accreditation has sometimes had its uses, though. Applications to legitimate accreditors were a common stay-of-execution device, when Wyoming was getting rid of its unaccredited schools. Can't remember a successful one. Most folded. Some went to Alabama, one or two to Pakistan and points east. ASIC is not a CHEA- or USDoE-recognized accreditor. I'm guessing it never will be. US schools that buy this have bought a fancy sticker - period.

    Here's a quote from the Wiki on Warnborough:

    "Also (known as) Warnborough College. 'Warnborough University is not a recognized institution in Ireland' - National Qualifications Authority of Ireland 'Not a UK degree-granter. Appearance on UK registry of training providers does not confer or represent authorization to issue degrees' - British Higher Education Governance office. [23] Alan Contreras, former administrator of the Oregon Office of Degree Authorization, characterised Warnborough College as "a diploma mill that has managed to move back and forth between Britain and Ireland for decades without either government's being able to put an end to it."[24][25] On its website, Warnborough College Ireland claims that its degrees are legal even though not accredited.[26] (Emphasis mine- Johann)

    If anyone wants it, here's the whole darned history of the place:

    Warnborough College - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 14, 2013
  13. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Homepage | Higher Education Degree Datacheck

    Welcome to the UK's official online degree verification service.
    HEDD is a secure online verification service allowing you to check that a UK university or college is or has been recognised as a degree-awarding body by the UK Government.
    It allows you to verify the degree qualifications of graduates from UK universities and colleges from a single online portal.

    I entered the following college to test the system:

    Warnborough College


    Warnborough College This is not and has never been a valid UK degree awarding body
    Warnborough University This is not and has never been a valid UK degree awarding body
    Burnell College This is not and has never been a valid UK degree awarding body
    The Gemini College This is not and has never been a valid UK degree awarding body
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 14, 2013
  14. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Fine, Lerner - good observation. But (not to defend Warnborough) it does not claim to be a valid UK awarding body - it even says as much on its web page. It is careful not to issue or advertise UK degrees. It claims basically that its Irish degrees are "legal," regardless of their recognition (i.e. lack thereof) by the Irish authorities.

    I suggest they are "legal" only in the sense that the Irish government has yet to come up with any legislation that will either shut Warnborough down or make it leave. You may read the Irish Government officials' comments in the articles. I further assert that legal or not -- they are academically worthless, regardless of the effort or cash expended. Several countries appear to have agreed.

    Here are a couple of other articles on Warnborough that may prove of interest to readers.

    Education Matters - Ireland's Foremost Education Periodical Education Matters » Warnborough College is challenged on value of its degrees

    College charges €18,000 fees for 'useless' degrees - National News -

    Of course, there are those who will say I know nothing about Warnborough "except what I have made up in my tiny little mind." Let 'em. My tiny little mind and a couple of good, recognized schools have kept me 18,000 euros ahead, apparently. :smile:

    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 14, 2013
  15. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    I've said this before. When an anonymous member shills for an unlovely entity I am immediately suspicious (especially when their screen name is the same as said unlovely entity). It strongly suggests that the members either works for the entity or has "graduated" from the entity. I would like to ask this member to describe clearly their relationship to the entity.
  16. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Whodunit? My money's on the Provost, in the Quadrangle, with a Ceremonial Mace -- or perhaps a curtain rod. :smile:

  17. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    Certainly not the Library, because we know that there is no Library.:sgrin:
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 17, 2013
  18. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    Just for the record, I once wrote that Warnborough had used, in their literature, the single most misleading paragraph I'd ever found in school materials. It was based on the fact that they once rented a building that had previously been used by Oxford University. This is what they said:

    "Like Oxford itself, Warnborough College is steeped in tradition. The college’s historic campus sits on Boar’s Hill, with an imposing view overlooking Oxford’s dreaming spires. It is here on Warnborough’s terraced lawns that some of this century’s great innovators have achieved great thoughts. Mahatma Gandhi, Bertrand Russell, Albert Einstein, Madame Curie, Bernard Shaw, Gilbert Murray, and many others have all walked the halls and found a place of inspiration amongst Warnborough’s 13-acre woodland campus."
  19. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    That's simply amazing, Dr. Bear! Don't think I've ever seen hyperbole and blatant opportunism on such an intergalactic scale. Really monstrous - it trumps everything else I've ever read about Warnborough!

    My sincere thanks - I believe you have just performed an important public service. :smile:

    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 18, 2013
  20. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    I have an MP3 of the Warnborough promotional CD including those lines, and a good deal more, recorded from the BBC (which has given me permission to send it to private parties). I'd be glad to send it to anyone who sends me an email address ([email protected]).

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