ASIC and Warnborough University

Yes it is. But not as in Morley's scenario - deriving degree-granting authority from the incorporation docs. Usual process - incorporate, THEN buy a license to operate from the local government. Remember those Dominica-incorporated mills - the 8 Copthall crowd? In their documents, some of them cited a Dominican Act that supposedly gave them degree-granting powers. The Act had to do with something else entirely and we agreed (I think) that was total BS. You just can't get degree-granting authority from putting it in your incorporation documents, as in Morley's suggestion. A lot of places, you can get away with it, but it's not real. Just happens in the absence of oversight and/or enforcement.

Believe it or not, Steve, I'm trying to make it relevant. You're 100% right, but I quote this in regard to ASIC because:

(a) ASIC is careful to say so itself, in case somebody gets the wrong idea.
(b) I've seen statements from ASIC schools - not ASIC itself - that use every available means to give the impression it does create or add authority to degree-granting. Totally false impression.
(c) Numerous people form the wrong idea for themselves. And the easiest way to dissuade them is to repeat what ASIC says, rather than go through all the hoops...

But - as I said - you're 100% right.

J.

 

I agree, not because the school is accredited in its own country, it would be considered RA in the US. Take the example of Azteca or University of Central Nicaragua, I can bet that some NACEs evaluators would say are RA equivalent while others would disagree. These schools are in the gray area in the sense that they are recognized by the authorities of their own countries but at the bottom of the scale in terms of ranking and recognition so some might not agree that they have the same rigor as an RA school.

However, the ASIC accreditation is a bit tricky. This accreditation would mean something in addition to local accreditation. Lets take the example of Azteca or NCU, they are accredited in their own countries so ASIC comes as valued added accreditation that ensures that the degrees from these schools can be accepted for immigration and employment in the UK. In the case of the University of Atlanta, it doesn't make sense as they are located in the US so they should be getting an American accreditation agency before they go to ASIC, the fact is that they pursue ASIC because most likely cannot pursue any recognized American accreditation so they go foreign mainly to remain in business.

 

Not quite. ASIC accreditation does not make these schools' degrees the academic equivalent of a UK degree. UK-NARIC can make that call - nobody else. What an employer would accept ... is up to the employer, I guess. What one would get in US, I think, might vary. I've heard of people getting good evaluations of UCN degrees up to the doctoral level. And that was before ASIC. Not heard how Azteca degrees have been received in North America, with ASIC or before.

Can I assume you are aware of U. of Atlanta's accreditation history? It evolved from the former Barrington U., an unaccredited school which was sold and re-branded. U. of Atlanta was originally located in Alabama and State-licensed there. Then, when Alabama decided not to renew these State licenses, it moved to - where else? Atlanta, GA. There, it became DETC accredited for an initial period of five years. That accreditation was not renewed and there was a teach-out provision, covering the students already enrolled at that time. Soon after, U of A acquired ASIC accreditation. I think it mainly markets to overseas students, these days. As always, I could be wrong...

J.

 

I wasn't aware of its background but I have checked the University of America (another ASIC accredited school) and the web site seems to be made by a 12 year old with lots of typos and editorial issues. The school offers more than hundred degrees with no faculty mentioned in its one page web site and it offers everything from medical technology, IT, ESL to engineering. The full web site was created with almost no budget so my guess is that the complete school is not worth more than 10K. It appears that the school is running with a high school license but yet offers degrees from associates up to higher doctorates that are not even part of the American educational framework.

For what I have seen, it looks to me that Azteca, UCN, Pebble hills, Empresarial, U of Atlanta, etc are part of the same network that probably is run by the same people that profit from the desperation of people from developing countries that are looking to better themselves with a low budget with a degree from one of these institutions. I met a gentleman from Africa with 3 or 4 doctorates from Empresarial, Pebble hills, etc that is teaching in Africa, he told me that went there mainly because of cost.

So I agree, U of Atlanta probably noticed that there is more money to be made by selling cheap doctorates with no faculty or accreditation overheard in developing nations than trying to make an honest buck with real faculty and accreditation.

The whole ASIC accreditation smells like a way to make a quick buck with no real intention to provide a good education.

I know people are always trying to find cheap, easy, fast, accredited, etc but I think there is no replacement for good education so you get what you pay for.

If one budget is low, I would rather get a decent certificate or associates degree from a good school than a PhD from any of the discussed ASIC accredited schools.

 

The usage of the word "accreditation," as it pertains to higher education, is different in the UK than it is in the U.S.

In the US it is understood that accreditation, generally speaking, is what identifies a university as a legitimate institution. Accreditation determines whether the degrees have value in the workplace. When people ask "Is this school accredited?" they are really asking "Is this a legitimate school?"

ASIC is recognized for a very limited purpose by the UK government. And their accreditation program does not purport to offer anything comparable to U.S. institutional accreditation. I would suspect that the unscrupulous schools waving the ASIC banner are taking advantage of this play on words in an effort to say they are "accredited."

I recall a guy I used to serve with in the Navy. He became a notary public at some point and took great pride in the fact that he had a "commission." In most/many states, Notaries Public are commissioned. Military officers are also commissioned. The source of that commission, as well as the duties imparted to the commissioned, differs greatly. But this guy threw around the phrase "My commission..." very liberally. He obviously fooled no one into thinking he was actually an officer. And he didn't do it to be deceitful. He was just a guy, who was never going to become an officer, who desperately wanted to feel some of that importance he associated with being an officer.

That doesn't mean that states are providing a bogus commission to make a quick buck or that what they offer is somehow illegitimate.

 

Hmmm - I really wonder about his motivation - why he has found it necessary to get 3 or 4 of these uh ..."doctorates", even at bargain rates. Cheaper in bulk? :question: :question: Maybe competing applicants for teaching positions only had one or two doctorates apiece... :sad:

J.

 

You agree? That's strange --- exactly where did I say this? Answer - I didn't. You're entitled to express your viewpoint, of course, but please don't agree with something I never said.

J.

 

Ah, yes - U of A. I believe it's connected with Salt Lake Bible College, on which we have a twelve-page thread here: http://www.degreeinfo.com/accreditation-discussions-ra-detc-state-approval-unaccredited-schools/38637-salt-lake-bible-college.html Last I looked, some U of A degree programs cross-validated with Azteca U. (Mexico) and Universidad Central de Nicaragua.

A couple of years back, on another forum, there was something critical about U. of A's Latin motto. Someone from U. of A must have read it. They've since managed to fix exactly HALF of the problem. :smile:

J.

 

"The University of America" is the name under which Salt Lake Bible College/Salt Lake Baptist College got accredited by ASIC

Cross-validation and mutual recognition, yes, that's a popular concept.

http : // paramountcaliforniauniversity dot club/docs/pcu_catalog-Paramount-California-University-former-catalogue-of-prograns dot pdf

Assuming the source is a reliable one, that is, which is not necessarily the case.

 

As Salt lake bible college is free as it is meant for non secular jobs, I believe the ASIC accreditation is just an ice on the cake and there is no harm in taking their programs. You might validate and get an Azteca degree and use it to teach religion, although my feeling is that there is no shortage of PhDs in Religion from better schools.

I think we have discussed many times the religious exempted degrees, they are not harmful as long as the school does not grant degrees that can be confused with secular ones such as PhDs. Salt lake bible college does not grant PhDs but doctorates in biblical subjects.

The question is how useful would be a degree from them, can someone use it to become an ordained minister at a credible church? Probably if the individual is committed enough, the ASIC accreditation is just to give it some credibility so I don't see any harm here.

 

ASIC hasn't accredited either Salt Lake Bible College or Salt Lake Baptist College, though. ASIC has accredited the University of America, a university offering bachelor, master and PhD degrees in theology, education, arts, music and social work. On the Nigerian side of things, there's a polytechnic.

 

What is ASIC's exact standing with the USDOE? Is it considered a low-tier accreditor? Or, is it just totally unrecognized and the degrees are worthless?

 

Nevermind. I see. Worthless.

However, if all one needs to do is fool a U.S. employer it should "work". Employer asks for an accredited degree, you show the employer that it is "accredited", you get by.

 

Many employers don't know enough about accreditation to really care. ASIC? Fine. TRACS? Whatever. The Neuhaus Accrediting Commission (TNAC)? Sure. Keep in mind that some states have a generally more favorable employer view of state approval (within that state) than others, too.

ASIC appears on a list of overseas accreditors maintained by CHEA. That's about it. They don't claim to be USDOE recognized. They don't claim to be a U.S. accreditor. Their role in the UK is incredibly limited in scope.

I'm not ready to call every school accredited by ASIC a scam. I'm sure, after all, that the Israeli Dance Academy is probably legit. But ASIC does not provide the same assurance that RA generally does in the US that a school's degrees will be accepted. No UK accreditor can do that. And since many of these schools are outside of the UK (those within are non-degree granting) ASIC accreditation even means slightly less for them.

If a school is based in Italy then it needs to have Italian Education Ministry approval to be operating. It can have ACBSP programmatic accreditation. It can be accredited by ASIC. It can even somehow wiggle itself into DEAC. It doesn't matter. Without that Ministry approval it isn't a recognized Italian degree. The other stuff might obscure that fact. It might work for a U.S. employer. But no entity other than the Italian Ministry of Education can make an entity a recognized Italian university.

 

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Just check one of the schools accredited by ASIC below:
The University of America - Home

The web site is full of typos, formatting issues, etc. Hard to believe that a serious accreditation agency would accredit a place like this.

The school has a high school license but they offer any type of degree from any faculty. Of course you can get your Azteca or UCN degree with one of these but my guess is that any of these prestigious institutions would not do too much for you in a resume.

The University of America: Federal USDE Code:475237 - School Directory Details (CA Dept of Education)

By the way, Azteca degrees are also questionable as in Mexico each degree has to be approved by the minister of education so the fact that Azteca gives you a PhD in Nuclear in Engineering does not make it valid in Mexico, WES or other credential evaluator would make sure that the degree has been approved by the minister of education of the country in place. Azteca is abusing its Mexican University license as they are validating anything from associates to higher doctorate but they only have license to offer a limited amount of degrees and this does not include doctorates.
It seems to me that the owners of all the universities of this network are probably the same owners as they have very similar common characteristics as horrible web sites full of typos and offer every degree in the book.

 

Not harmful? Yeah, they can be. Some degenerate with phony degrees gets a TV show. In a white suit, with snake-oil and a $30K smile, he tells all the pious poor folks that God says to send all their money to his "ministry" in Spider Pond, Tennessee. Fast-forward a year or so -- he gets caught with several hookers in a motel and all the poor folks' money is gone - for a big house, several Cadillacs, a boat and two mistresses. These guys aren't harmful?

Hmph! Gimme a couple of phony degrees -- I'll show you harmful! :firedevil:

J.

 

You don't need a PhD to do this. In any case, most Reverends call themselves Drs nowadays and it is really hard to tell if these are real or not as most would never reveal who granted their degrees.

With the internet, the PhD title became lose, many people that practice alternative medicine, religion, counseling and even sales men put PhDs in their business cards and very few would check if these are real or not. They might be real but from an ASIC accredited school or religious exempted university.