Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by Peaceforall, Oct 20, 2005.
Sorry Wrong again and please be respectful
Your link to your site is not correct, but I went to this site which is as you say for FRENCH PUBLIC UNIVERSITIES not the PRIVATE ONES. (es tu d'accord?)
On top of that the inscription to the RNCP list for Universities is not mandatory as it is written on the site very precisely:
"Les diplômes dits d'université (DU) peuvent être également inscrits au Répertoire National des Certifications Professionnelles, si les établissements concernés en font la demande et suivent la procédure d'inscription prévue au Répertoire."
TRANSLATION: THE UNIVERSITY DEGREES MAY (NOT SHOULD) BE iNCLUDED IN THE RNCP IF THE UNIVERSITIES ASK FOR IT.
I noticed that very few public universities have done this non mandatory inscription THE MAJORITY HAVE NOT.
Dear Breizhou, I do not insult you, nor your country contrary to you, so please be polite and respectful. it will be better for the other readers.
PeaceforAll, you are insulting yourself by trying to defend a diploma mill and by appearing to think that you're fooling the readers here that the diploma mill has a shred of legitimacy.
OK first i'm not insulting your country, I love going to switzerland !!
You're the only one concerned by my witty remarks
Once again i'll repeat just for you and you can check here:
ALL DEGREES (FROM PUBLIC & PRIVATE INSTITUTIONS) THAT YOU CAN GET THROUGH THE VAE PROCESS ARE IN THE RNCP, THEY HAVE TO BE, ITS WRITTEN ON THE OFFICIAL VAE WEBSITE !!!
I will not explain the RNCP registration "de droit" & "sur demande" again you can just read my last post or the official website.
As for the DU, and this where I can see that you know nothing of french degrees:
A DU or "diplome d'université" is an undergraduate or graduate 2 year diploma (not a licence/bachelor/masters), AND DOES NOT REFER TO ALL "UNIVERSITY DEGREES" AS YOU SUBJECTIVELY TRANSLATED IT.
A DU is a diploma aimed mostly at working adults taught at public universities but it is not a national diploma, the university chooses what courses to put in it. When the DU program is equivalent to a recognized level of study it is registered on the RNCP (and can be completed through VAE). When the DU is not comparable to any level of study it is not registered (not accredited) and employers might or might not accept it, depending on the reputation of the university and the content of the program.
Now I beg you STOP !! This is getting really sad !
Cool down Man! +response to Breizhou
Some like Bill , fortunately not all people, are so mad when they disagree in this forum that they create the new concept of "auto-inflected insult... " It's Freudian! I think I am dreaming. For De Sorbon you do not share my thoughts, its your right.
But you must at least agree with me that they have been legally in business for 4 years in France and that they have the right to issue degrees.
Mr. Hoffman, I will never call you an "Ass", and do not say that because you are (probably) American that you know nothing about the French System. Breizhou, your friend, did it even if denies it now... For a demeaning and arrogant phrase about Switzerland in French, and in English for the word "Ass."in this forum.
I think that intellectuals should "raison garder' and not insult each other as President Pompidou said "Lorsque les bornes sont dépassées il n'y a plus de limite.. . I never had such attitude for distinguished members of this panel who disagree with me.
About the RNCP I still think that Breizhou is still wrong
Diplome d'université means "University Diploma"
More over I saw : On article 335-12 of the code de l'education.
"Le répertoire national des certifications professionnelles a pour objet de tenir à la disposition des personnes et des entreprises une information constamment à jour sur les diplômes et les titres à finalité professionnelle ainsi que sur les certificats de qualification figurant sur les listes établies par les commissions paritaires nationales de l'emploi des branches professionnelles "
It is confirmed by:
"Les diplômes et titres à finalité professionnelle sont classés dans le répertoire national des certifications professionnelles par domaine d'activité et par niveau."
It clearly precise that this "repertoire" is for VOCATIONAL PROFESSIONAL DEGREES and not regular university degrees. Some universities have put in the RNCP Licence Professionelles but not their regular university degrees, which can be granted through the VAE.
It's been in business for several years, true. Its legal status as a higher education institution is less clear. Whether it's awarding degrees legally in France (where it claims to be located) or in Florida (where it may actually be operating) is still undetermined as far as I can see. (I'm pretty certain that it's illegal for it to award degrees in Florida.)
But the question of Sorbon's legality has always been a red-herring. All that 'legal operation' means is that an enterprise's owners can't be prosecuted simply for running it. Prospective students and their potential employers have a very different concern: academic credibility.
The fact (if it is a fact) that Mr. Prade isn't putting himself in legal danger by operating Sorbon tells us nothing about whether students would be smart to enroll in it or whether prospective employers and clients would be wise to accept Sorbon degrees as they do meaningful degrees from real higher-education institutions.
LOL It's funny to see that when you have no more arguments to give us you start questionning our integrity.
If you walk around Paris one day you will find many private language schools that are also legally declared as private institutions, but guess what... they could give out PhDs if they wanted, these degrees would have no value !!!! The same is true for Sorbon... Anybody (me included) can open an "association" and call it a school. Sure I would have the right to give out any degree I wanted, but simply because they are worthless !!!
DU does mean University diploma but DOES NOT refer to all diplomas issued by a university, it refers to only one. You want proof ? here is a description from an official Ministère de l'éducation website for students,
It clearly states "Les diplômes d’université ne bénéficient pas d’une reconnaissance nationale." DU or diplôme d'université are not nationaly accredited, diplome d'université DOES NOT EQUAL diplôme d’Etat (State Diploma) !! You want examples of this 2 year diploma here is a list of all DUs issued by the Université Paris X Nanterre, some are registered on the RNCP and available through VAE, some are not. But by all means if you disagree with me simply send an email to all universities issuing DUs or even to the Ministère de l'éducation.
As for the VAE, all the info I gave you was on the official national VAE website, what more do you want ??. The people that documented the website are the ones that created the VAE Process !! DO you know better than them how the process works ??
They clearly state two things:
"What Degrees can you get through VAE ??
All National Degrees of Higher Education... All these degree are registered on the RNCP !!!"
Concerning vocational diplomas:
"Vocational diplomas and certificates available through the VAE are on the RNCP."
IN CONCLUSION, ALL DEGREES AVAILABLE THROUGH VAE, VOCATIONAL OR NOT, ARE REGISTERED ON THE RNCP !!!!!!
IF THEY ARE NOT ON THE RNCP YOU CANNOT GET THEM THROUGH THE NATIONAL PROCESS OF VAE !!!
If you disagree with that, then by all means send an email to the people that created the VAE process...
You took advantage of the fact that people on this forum do not speak french, when a simple phone call to the ministère de l'éducation would have revealed the truth about Sorbon and the VAE in a matter of minutes. Because you have withheld information (In a whole discussion about VAE you have not mentioned the Official VAE website...) that was going against your opinions, you are a fraud and deserve no respect.
If by mad you mean angry then you're plain wrong, I'm not in the least bit angry nor even frustrated. If by mad you mean I must have a few marbles loose then I think the very fact that I continue to participate in this thread would make a strong argument that you're correct!
Hi Bill - No one thinks you're crazy. Continued participation in this thread serves a purpose. That is to counteract the propoganda put out by peaceforall. She's just a dixieclone.
Annuaire National Officiel de l'Enseignement Privé
From another "forum" and not discovered by me, there in France a National Official National Directory of Private Education in France.
de Sorbon is mentioned on page: http://www.enseignement-prive.info/result.aspx?rechNomEtab=&SelecteurEtab=enseignement&Structure=lesDeux&SelecteurNiveau2=EnsSupEST&SelecteurSousNiveau=&SelecteurNiveau3=Dep&Region=&Departement=86&Ville=&ArrondParis=0&ArrondLyon=0&ArrondMarseille=0&Departement2=
"Peaceforall" is now taking the proverbial dirtnap.
Without question, my most frequent complaint as an Admin is that I don't take action against negative posters quickly enough.
While I think that complaint does has some merit, as I usually try to give anyone the benefit of the doubt to almost the extreme, I've moved quickly in this case.
I was looking at their site (sorebum) a while back, about six month's to a year ago, and they listed all of the professors names who are on the "jury" it strikes me a bit odd that none of the "professors" are in France...
Just an observation...
I wonder how soon that will change...
Separate names with a comma.