Unaccredited Religious degree

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by Randell1234, Dec 29, 2011.

  1. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Fine by me. As I said, I've nothing to sell or defend. As I see it, Nations is a very good school that offers instruction in religious subjects - instruction of known quality, absolutely free outside the US and at $100/yr here. You say it's uh-- less good than I say it is. That's OK.

    If you want to know more about Nations, talk to Dr. Mac Lynn there.

    Here endeth....

    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 9, 2012
  2. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    You always say you're done but then you're not really done. As I said before, I'm wiling to stipulate that this unaccredited school is OK, like maybe tier 4.5. You say it's "very fine" but offer no evidence aside from alleged hearsay from people who have a vested interest in making it look like a quality school. Johann, you're becoming like a degree mill apologist. How many times have we heard people say, "I worked really hard for my unaccredited degree..." Today you sound like Dr. Duck talking about Knightsbridge. I'm willing to consider real evidence but you're offering nothing. Show me one case where a Nations grad got into grad school as a result of their Nations degree.
  3. AdjunctInstructor

    AdjunctInstructor New Member

    I did and graduated from Liberty University with an 3.67 GPA. Kizmet it seems as if you are trying to continue the argument. I think you should step back and reflect on how you are responding to Johann. You continue the argument as if she has an obligation to convince you or otherwise "prove" that NationsUniversity is a good school or whatever. She can make her/his own assumptions and share her/his opinion without any obligation to prove to Kismet or anyone else the quality of any school. Bury your hatchet.
  4. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Oh yeah - I'm done, all right. And I'm still doing fine, thanks... don't really appreciate or need the Dr. Duck - Knightsbridge remark, but considering where it came from, that's OK. Want a Nations grad who got into RA grad school with his/her Nations degree? You don't have to look very far... AdjunctInstructor, who posted into this thread, was accepted to Liberty U. as a Nations grad. Liberty is RA - SACS-Accredited.

    Besides, AdjunctInstructor also said I was correct in much of what I said. That'll do nicely. Thankyou, A-J. I hope Nations is successful in its current bid for accreditation. Whether or not it is, my good opinion of the school is unchanged.

    I wish Nations well and I wish AdjunctInstructor well. Anybody else is on their own. And Kizmet - don't tell me what to say or think. I don't have to say I mis-spoke etc. or change my thinking on your say-so.

    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 9, 2012
  5. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Last I looked, this was a forum of free opinion. NOT North Korea. Unless you're really Kim Jong-Un, that is.

  6. AdjunctInstructor

    AdjunctInstructor New Member


    NU is not a diploma mill... contrary to what Kizmet may believe. However, in the past NU was indeed lacking and not ready for accreditation. Only in the past few months has NU progressed to a point that it stands a good chance of gaining accreditation. There has been a continuum of opinions concerning NU from degree mill to an very good school. However, neither extreme is indicative of NU in that it is a developing online Christian University with some good qualities and a few not so good qualities. An example is the instructor -to -student ratio, we need to continue improve that area.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 9, 2012
  7. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    Wow, there's a blast from the past.

    Actually, it's a forum of free opinion only because that's the way the owner wants it. The Constitutional protections of free speech only apply to governmental action, and this ain't the government.

    In any case, while moderators are charged with keeping the free expression of opinions flowing, we also have opinions of our own, sometimes very strong opinions, which we also have the freedom to express.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 10, 2012
  8. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    Got your feelings hurt because someone challenged you? Poor baby. No one has stopped you from expessing your opinion. As usual, you are over the top whenever someone doesn't throw themselves at your feet in gratitude for your posting. I'm glad that adnunctinstructor has had success. However, as you know, it might not be solely because of a Nations degree. And as he has just said, it has not always been a good school.

    Again, the issue is not "is Nations OK?" The issue is "Is Nations VERY fine?"

    Why are you so upset Johann? This has nothing to do with you, does it? This is just about an objective measure of a degree program. You think it's very fine but can offer no evidence. I think it's OK at best and only have to show that it remains unaccredited. I'm not trying to say it's worthless, I'm just saying that if you think it's "VERY fine" then you should show some reason to say that. I congratulate our friend AdjunctInstructor for his accomplishements (and I applaud his frugality) but I'll bet there were other elements that effected his admission to Liberty.
  9. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    Chea has a page devoted to explaining what accreditation is and why it exists.

    Public Information
  10. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    AdjunctInstructor - You are doing just what Johann has done. You are overdefending. I defy you to show me where I ever said that Nations was a mill. Go back in this thread and pull out one single quotation that backs up your statement. I have said repeatedly, REPEATEDLY that Nations was OK. But "VERY FINE?" Very fine is a set of adjectives that you reserve for tier one or tier two schools. Not some unaccredited school that no one has ever heard of. I'm not trying to dis your school but c'mon, lets be honest, in the realm of legitimate schools it's on the bottom rung. It's gotten you where you want to go and so that's why I said FROM THE BEGINNING that it's an OK school. VERY FINE? OK, based on what? No one has an answer. I went to a school that was not even close to top tier. It got me where I wanted to go and continues to serve my purposes. That's great. But I have no illusions that I graduated from a top school. Come down to earth guys. Put your egos in a box for five minutes and accept the fact that Nations is a marginal unaccredited school. Hopefully someday it'll become accredited and then we won't have to argue about it.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 10, 2012
  11. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Bill - you were, of course, right.

    Thankyou, Bill. I have read the page and CHEA indeed says that accreditation is about ensuring quality. Indeed, no mention is made of degree-granting authority. I have learned something and I thank you for that opportunity.

    I still believe that quality may not always be excusively confined to accredited schools. Your mileage may vary, of course. Thanks again.

  12. AdjunctInstructor

    AdjunctInstructor New Member


    Over defending is not my intention simply because I am a very staunch critic of any unaccredited school, including NationsUniversity, that is over-hyped. Looking at the above quote you are, perhaps unknowingly implying, that NationsUniversity is a degree mill. If I am wrong then excuse me. You are not too far off in your observation and opinion concerning unaccredited schools. In fact, I do agree with much you have written. I believe that we are in agreement that NU is not a "very fine school". However, that is subjective. In fact, I do not know what the operational definition for "very fine school" is or how one is to qualify that a school is "very fine". A good benchmark,or at least a starting point is, would have to include student satisfaction. Perhaps the most important measure is accreditation. I would like to agree with your appraisal that NU is a "marginal unaccredited school", however, I am unsure what marginal means in the context you are using it ..is that anything like "lunatic fringe"? Would not developing unaccredited online University be more descriptive? As far as ego Kizmet you missed the boat on that assumption. Why would ego come into play? Again, I do agree with much what you say but I do believe you did imply, perhaps unintentionally, that NU is a degree mill. Moreover, I believe that your responses to Johanne was a bit harsh.
  13. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Indeed you do, Bruce. And it doesn't bother me at all if people tell me I'm wrong, full of BS and a Duckman, even -- though I never went to Knightsbridge and my real name is not Neil. (It's John.)

    You know: "Sticks and stones may break my bones -- but whips and chains excite me." :)

    By the way, my own schools are "real" I assure you. What sticks in my craw is being ordered to say that "I mis-spoke" - or being ordered to say, do or think anything, for that matter. It's too much like every day at the English primary school I went to over 60 years ago - or Pyongyang today.

    Kizmet: "I have no illusions that I graduated from a top school."
    Johann: "Good to know."

    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 10, 2012
  14. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    You and I are in complete agreement about that.

    It so happens that I'm currently very interested in a fairly informal religious education institute that isn't even state-approved. It gets away with that because it only offers classes and doesn't award degrees. But it's entered into an association agreement with a California state approved school and finds itself teaching the specialized coursework for a couple of that school's state-approved masters programs. And that state-approved school in turn offers another of its masters degrees jointly with a rather prominent nationally known California RA school. While the RA school hasn't to my knowledge formally recognized the state approved school's association with the little institute that I'm speaking of, the RA school does list the institute's classes in its class schedule.

    The bottom line is that this little group of people seems to be offering some of the best classes in the entire state of California in its underserved area of scholarship and they have started to get some domestic and international recognition.

    I've always been a huge fan of grassroots academics like this.

    Of course, I'm not trying to convince any Degreeinfo readers of what I'm saying. (You will note that I've carefully avoided identifying the schools that I'm talking about.) The thing is beginning to generate some reputation in its specialty and it will have to stand on its own merits there. Outside its specialist community, there's no reason why people should have any a-priori faith in it and some initial skepticism is probably justified.
  15. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator

    I don't know...my wife is "very fine". I would even say "super fine". :banana: Let's all lighten up a little.
  16. AdjunctInstructor

    AdjunctInstructor New Member


    So you have a tier one wife! I do too...well except when she is mean to me...then she reverts to an unaccredited and unwonderful status!
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 10, 2012
  17. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    I am glad that AdjunctInstructor has found success and I'm sure that his Nations degree was a part of that success. I hope he continues to prosper in his life and in his career. I never stated nor implied that Nations was a degree mill. I was merely trying to make a point. The point is simply this: In the realm of global higher education, Nations, despite it's good qualities, can NOT be considered to be a VERY fine school. It's virtually brand new. It's unaccredited. It may never become accredited. Maybe there's some good teachers there (I don't know because Johann didn't bother to check). Maybe some of their grads have written some good books or done some good research (I don't know because Johann didn't bother to check). Maybe there's some other good stuff going on there but I don't know because Johann didn't bother to check. Still, even though a person who has actually graduated the program and agrees with me that it's NOT a VERY fine university, Johann continues to think that's the case. Johann might come onto this site tomorrow and tell us that the sky is green but I'm going to look out the window before I believe it.
  18. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    Not so subtle personal attack. It's the last vestige of a failing argument. I'll hold my career up to yours anyday.
  19. Alert

    Alert New Member

    Do the schools below add to NationsU.org’s faculty’s credibility?

    Lloyd Woods, M.R.S. from NationsUniversity, M.A.T.S., Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary.
    (Makes “program director” with an unaccredited degree and a 36 credit no-thesis seminary degree? Dang.)

    Miles Calvin, D.Min. from American Christian College and Seminary.
    (Didn’t TRACS yank ACCS’ accreditation? And why can’t they spell his name right?)

    Muhammad Schmidt, Th.D. from the Institute for Christian Works, D.C.E. from Urban Harvest Bible College and Seminary, Ph.D. from Berlin Free University
    (He and his unaccredited schools are real famous for real bad reasons - gentlemen, start your search engines)

    William Hayden, D.B.S. from Trinity Graduate School of Apologetics and Theology (India)
    (Just Google TGAST)

    Allan Jang, N.D. from Trinity School of Natural Health, Ph.D., Columbia Pacific University
    (Columbia Pacific AND a naturopathy degree?)

    Mac Lynn, D.Admin. from The International University, S.T.D. from San Francisco Theological Seminary.
    (Even the supremely mellow John Bear describes The International University as “dreadful”)
  20. Hotdillon

    Hotdillon New Member

    Alert, those few out of the twenty plus faculty names you mentioned are from some unaccredited schools, correct?
    They are mostly in religion, correct?
    Religious institutions do not have to be accredited, correct?
    The very few names you mentioned all have something to offer the school and I'm sure they have undergrad/grad from accredited schools elsewhere. Nations, in my opinion will get accreditation. They dont need to change a thing. They could probably get regional accreditation if they could afford to, but they have to start somewhere. I applaud Nations for offering affordable degrees and yet at the very same time, seek accrediation, when they really dont have to. I think they will eventually get DETC accredited, but all schools have to start somewhere, right?
    Nations keep up the good work. Adjunct Instructor, thank you for your help at Nations!
    Johann, keep representing Nations as well as you do!

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