St. Regis will not be listed by UNESCO/International Handbook of Universities

I'll ask.

Why in the world would St Regis need professors? They have no courses.

I would rather buy my sainthood from the Universal Life Church than my professorship from St Regis.

 

As stated at the website, SRU offers Degree trough Assesment, Research, Exam and Distance Courses.

So I would say SRU needs professors to judge the Assesments /Researches and controll the Exams.

 

Oh C'mon guys, this is like saying that Noah built the Titanic and that's why it sunk!

Surely we can come up with proper facts and not answer a question with a question as John did?

Louis, I have seen non-degree mill universities with programs even more more flexible than that of degree mill universities. On this, are we sure of our facts that SRU is a degree mill, or is it simply a matter of follow the leader (John) just because we feel good about it and just because that is John's view?

If the Liberian Ministry of Education accredits SRU's degrees (my info is that it does), surely this puts another colour to this whole issue of SRU not being accredited. Let's be open minded my friends; unless we want to look foolish if it turns out one of these days that SRU indeed is accredited - who will then be the first one to post a thread of open apology to SRU and its members?

There is a university in South Africa that also provides courses and tuition via the internet, with no classroom attendance - this is accredited by the Ministry of Education there as well as the South African Qualifications Authority (SAQA) - so now please tell me what is the difference between SRU and that university?

I am merely highlighting the inconsistent and one-way direction of the arguments here; let's look at facts and get the right picture.

Cheers.

Len.

 

Len wrote:

>> That site is most likely a scam that was made-up by the
>> operators of Saint Regis. Listing legitimate schools along with
>> their own worthless school gives a false impression of
>> credibility to people who don't know any better.
>
> Oh C'mon guys, this is like saying that Noah built the Titanic
> and that's why it sunk!

Not at all. If the site were legitimate, it would tell us who owned or sponsored it. But this site is anonymous. (Even http://www.whois.net doesn't give the usual contact information for the site.) The logical question: Cui bono? Who stands to gain from such a site? The logical answer: Saint Regis University.

> Surely we can come up with proper facts and not answer a
> question with a question as John did?

Dr Bear's point was that anybody can make up a spurious list and post it on the Web. That's the answer to your earlier question, "How do you explain this?"

> Louis, I have seen non-degree mill universities with
> programs even more more flexible than that of degree
> mill universities.

Louis had in mind bottom-end mills with no requirements at all. You can't get more flexible than that.

SRU apparently has some sort of assessment process, so it's not bottom-end. That doesn't mean it's worthy of accreditation.

> On this, are we sure of our facts that SRU is a degree mill, or
> is it simply a matter of follow the leader (John) just because we
> feel good about it and just because that is John's view?

I have often disagreed with Dr Bear.

About SRU:

1) Alan Contreras, administrator of the Oregon Office of Degree Authorization, has said: "Certain Liberian officials have apparently authorized a privately owned entity called the 'National Board of Education' (NBOE) to 'accredit' distance-education colleges anywhere in the world. The NBOE also owns one such entity, a diploma mill called St. Regis University."
http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/avp/soe/cihe/newsletter/News32/text004.htm
(If he couldn't prove it was a mill, SRU could sue him for calling it one.)

2) The American Association of Collegiate Registrars and Admissions Officers has said "the standards of recognition of institutions in some countries may vary due to local conditions such as civil war and economic hardship [...] we do not accept the recognition of Saint Regis University by the Ministry of Education on Liberia as comparable" http://www.degreeinfo.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9321
(Quoted by Dr Bear, but you can verify it by contacting AACRAO directly.)

3) The International Association of Universities has decided not to include SRU in its handbook. (Quoted by Dr Bear in this thread, but you can verify it by contacting IAU directly. http://www.unesco.org/iau/)

4) Paul Culin, an alumnus of SRU and then director of a now-defunct SRU affiliate, the Copeland Conservatory of Music, said, "I will concede that the requirements are far less stringent than those of a US school, but that is the attraction."
(http://www.degreeinfo.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7329)

> If the Liberian Ministry of Education accredits SRU's degrees
> (my info is that it does), surely this puts another colour to this
> whole issue of SRU not being accredited.

Do you know who's in charge currently in Liberia? Did you know that according to the New York Times, Liberian government employees haven't been paid for over two years (http://www.degreeinfo.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8496)? Are you aware of the letter offering Liberian accreditation for $50,000 (http://www.degreeinfo.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7376)?

> There is a university in South Africa that also provides
> courses and tuition via the internet, with no classroom
> attendance - this is accredited by the Ministry of Education
> there as well as the South African Qualifications Authority
> (SAQA) - so now please tell me what is the difference between
> SRU and that university?

UNISA is legitimate. There is no civil war in South Africa, and South African civil servants are being paid.

The universities in Liberia are legitimate, too. They were established several decades ago, before the current civil unrest.

SRU claims to be a university in Liberia. But it doesn't claim to have a single faculty member who lives there.

Do you want an excellent source of info on Liberia, linked to by SRU itself? At http://saintregis.edu.lr/accreditation.htm, it says: "From The Perspective (Atlanta, Georgia): 'Liberian Government's Minister of Education becomes MINISTER OF THE YEAR 2002-2003'." The link is to http://www.theperspective.org/inquirer/evelynskandakai.html. (It was the University of Liberia Press Club who named her "Minister of the Year".) Now, try a Google search like:

site:.theperspective.org university

You'll find dozens of references to the universities in Liberia, including the University of Liberia, Cuttington University College, and African Methodist Episcopal Zion University College. No mention of Saint Regis University.

 

Lordikus wrote:

> As stated at the website, SRU offers Degrees through
> Assessment, Research, Exam and Distance Courses.
> So I would say SRU needs professors to judge the
> Assessments /Researches and control the Exams.

That would seem logical. However, the fact that SRU sells professorships (see http://www.degreeinfo.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8212) implies that they don't need professors. Aside from Blake Carlson himself, I don't know how involved any of the professors are in SRU's work.

 

"theocentric" vs "buck-centric"

Bill Eydler claims a doctorate in "Theocentric Business and Ethics". Uncle Janko asked him:

> What is theocentric business and ethics?

I'm afraid we may have heard the last of Bill Eydler; and, not having read his doctoral dissertation, I can only guess. But perhaps we could contrast a "theocentric" approach with a "buck-centric" approach:

"No servant can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money." -- Jesus (Luke 16:13)

"I really don't give Bear that much respect here. He is an expert on distance learning but in the past has done things to 'feather his own nest', so to speak. We all answer to the almighty buck and Bear is no exception. He has done many double takes in recommendations and has been associated himself with some dubious institutions. All of the sudden, he has seen the light????" -- Bill Eydler (http://www.degreeinfo.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5184)

 

The main difference is that Liberia sells its "accreditation" for $50,000 to anyone who will pay the price. South Africa does not. Liberia is in a literal state of anarchy. There is no government at all, never mind a "Ministry of Education". South Africa has no such problems.

I'm very curious as to what the SRU defenders will say if and when a picture appears on the wires of US troops standing in front of the burned-out Ministry of Education building.

 

I would accuse the US troops have burned it down... oh no wait that was wrong, I meant they just stood and looked as people burned it down, at least that was what US troops were doin in iraq.

But serious, what should that change? It would proof that the MOE builiding was destroyed after they accredited St. Regis. But what's the point in that? I mean I know that the Reichstag in germany went up in flames, but now it's builded up again and is now the home of the german Bundestag. So I think the Liberians would simply build it up again.

 

Simple explanation. Someone's hand was greased. The people who administer this site must have received one "hell-of-a" kick back for publishing this trash.

 

This is my first and, most likely, my last post here.

To all those members of degreeinfo who get the chance to read this before it is, probably, deleted. An OPEN INVITATION is extended to you to come and join our Distance Education Discussion Forum at http://www.distancedegree.edu.pk

I guess you must be tired of talking ad infinitum and ad nauseum about St. Regis University amongst yourselves. If you join us, you’ll have the opportunity to discuss this, your favorite, subject, face to face with other interested parties who may hold different to yours opinions. And, this interesting exchange will take place in a truly OPEN forum. No fascist tactics such as arbitrary removal and/or editing of posts or banning of posters are used at distancedegree.edu.pk How’s that for a stimulating change?

Of course, many of the existing, at present, members of distancedegree.edu.pk are St. Regis alumni and, I must say, that some rather unflattering things (backed by evidence) are being currently said about you people. Don’t let that discourage you though, you’ll be given every chance to say your piece and defend yourselves fairly and squarely. I guarantee that no posts will be deleted and no posters will be banned as long as they abide by the following simple, reasonable and fair to all rules, which I trust you’ll agree they are fitting to educated, civilized men and women:

1. Anyone is free to express their opinions and/or make statements, whatever they might be, as long as these are supported by verifiable, documented evidence and not based on hearsay.
2. Anyone is free to ask any questions, even of the most incisive kind, about any issue, as long as they are presented in the form of questions and not as statements of fact.
3. No statements, points of view, allegations, innuendoes, or any information of any kind is permitted without adequately documented supporting evidence.
4. No flaming of individuals or organizations is permitted.

I suggest that those of you who decide to join, read before you post the already existing posts. That will put you into the general picture.

Certainly, St. Regis is not, by any means, the only topic under discussion. You’ll have also the opportunity to give and receive advice on distance education, present schools and comment on schools as well as relevant publications and, generally, discuss all kinds of distance education topics.

So, what do you think? Take up the challenge?

Regards,

John S. Dovelos

 

John S. Dovelos writes:

> An OPEN INVITATION is extended to you to come and join
> our Distance Education Discussion Forum at
> http://www.distancedegree.edu.pk
> [...] And, this interesting exchange will take place in a truly
> OPEN forum.

OK, John, I've just looked there. (I had tried to access it earlier, but it was down.) Some interesting points are raised, which I'm sure some of us would love to debate in a truly OPEN forum. Since you are distrustful of the moderators here, may I suggest that you raise those points in the Usenet newsgroup alt.education.distance?
http://groups.google.com/groups?group=alt.education.distance
alt.education.distance is open in the fullest sense: there are NO moderators. Nobody has any power to ban anything there.

> and, I must say, that some rather unflattering things (backed
> by evidence) are being currently said about you people. [...]
> 4. No flaming of individuals or organizations is permitted.

And who decides what is an "unflattering thing" and what is a "flame"? For example, are the following comments "unflattering things" or "flames"?

"This 'Bear' dude used to run illegal diploma mills and when he was caught he turned 'informer' – a fancy word for 'snitch'. Not a lot of people like those types, and less trust them." -- Victoria Randolph, Aug 16th, 2003

"this obnoxious degreeinfo plant" -- Victoria Randolph, Aug 17th, 2003

"A certain small group of individuals at degreeinfo.com have launched a vicious slandering campaign against St Regis University. They use distorted facts, inaccuracies, grossly misleading and baseless information, outright lies and, generally, dirty tactics in their unsuccessful attempts to damage SRU. These individuals have been obviously acting on the orders of vested interests who feel increasingly threatened by the spectacular growth and success of St Regis University." -- John S. Dovelos, Aug 12th, 2003

 

Unless your name is Victoria Randolph, or some other St. Regis shill.

 

Therein lies the problem for them....no way to ban those who back them into logical corners.

I'd almost feel bad for John, Victoria Randolph, and the rest who were duped by St. Regis, if not for their incredible arrogance.

 

Okay, let me get this straight. You won't edit or delete anyone's posts, but you have rules for posting?

I'm dying to see what passes for "verifiable, documented evidence."

How does one flame an organization?

Your four points are redundant. (Does such an observation constitute a flame?)

Any bets on how long it takes for them to ban someone?

 

The first post there is by "Kristin Hirst Evan." It's a hoot. The picture's good, though.

 

Well, a review of the board reveals that they've already removed posts from one person. Also, they tolerate a great deal of flaming as long as it fits a certain point of view supporting SRU.

 

I just joined and logged in a moment ago. A most interesting development in the world of distance ed cyber forums. That's two new forums in the past week for me. I'd say there is always room for multiple views.

Question: "Will the real Spartacus please stand up and be accounted for?" Answer: "I''m Spartacus"; and from the rear "No, he's lying- I'm Spartacus"; and from the middle of the crowd "Don't believe them, I'm Spartacus", ("Spartacus" being the arbitor of all that is real and good in distance ed). Pretty soon we may have several "degree-info" type discussion boards directing people to their favourite schools. A certain owner of an unaccredited school even approached me earlier in 2003 about starting an alternative 'degreeinfo' board. I politely refused.

If I was John Bear I'd certainly be mentioning these cyber developments in the next edition. Just think - a new opportunity for would-be authors (of all stripes) to flood the marketplace with their books about who is the real Spartacus in distance ed and whom are the impostors. We may be entering an era where we are the news (distance ed forums and their denizens) rather than the commentators.

Regards to all,
Earon

 

Earon Kavanagh wrote:

> If I was John Bear I'd certainly be mentioning these cyber
> developments in the next edition.

Dr Bear has declined to do any more editions of Bears' Guide. If there is another edition, Ten Speed Press will be hiring someone else to do it.

Dr Bear is writing a book on diploma mills, however.

 

Mr Israel,

Your points are well taken and appreciated. All the instances you're referring to constitute flaming and unsubstantiated, subjective conclusions of the worst kind, some perpetrated by yours truly.

My apologies, I'll edit those portions of my posts and I'll see that similar portions are edited out from other posts.

We know we're not perfect, we all make mistakes and we often don't practice what what we preach. So, we are always open to constructive suggestions and advice.

Regards,

John