SMC University accreditation Status for PhD Programs

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by erhijakpor, Apr 20, 2010.

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  1. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    Not even. WES won't evaluate UCN programs at all, and that includes their partners Azteca and SMC. They don't like the arrangements made between the three schools. Personally, I think WES could lighten up and just reject the degrees that come through the arrangements but still evaluate the degrees that are directly from the institutions themselves, but WES is an inflexible clusterfuck of an organization that thinks its word is king, and it doesn't help that so many schools use them as the "go-to" evaluator.
    SteveFoerster and Rachel83az like this.
  2. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    That's not very nice.
    I haven't seen the report, but even if that is accurate--and I'm beginning to doubt your ability in that area--it doesn't make it so.
    Please show us where the term "regionally accredited" is commonly used for anything BUT the US regionals.
    No. Just that you're misusing the term.
    Again, you're getting personal. Not to mention quite defensive.

    I welcome you or anyone else to correct me where I am factually inaccurate. But please don't try to drag me into a fight because you don't like what I'm posting. I'll have none of it.
  3. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Why not? Once the entire scheme is examined, an evaluator might very well come to a different conclusion. We don't know. But what we do know is another poster says another NACES member has--and has rejected this set up. Now, I'm in no position to judge which is right, but the reality is there.
  4. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Who's worked up?
    I don't see the controversy. It's all pretty straight-forward to me.

    See, it does NOT "take two to tango." Just one will suffice.
  5. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member


    Personally, I'm not really judging the situation. But a few well-placed questions and some assertion of facts have seemed to upset one particular poster, to the point where he's getting quite personal in his attacks, as if they substitute for reasoned arguments or an exchange of ideas.

    My assertions:

    SMC is not recognized in any way comparable to other national systems because it is not.
    UNC is a for-profit school established in the mid-'90s. It is recognized as a university in Nicaragua.
    UNC is not "regionally accredited" as this term applies to the six regional accreditors in the United States. (Opinion: Nor should anyone expect it to be. Calling it "regionally accredited" is a non sequitur.)
    UNC is not ranked anywhere in the Times' ranking of more than 2,100 universities. Nor are any universities in Nicaragua.
    Nicaragua's higher education system isn't ranked in the top 100 national systems worldwide. (At least, I haven't found any.)
    One poster on this board says he received a foreign credential evaluation from a NACES-member company, (Opinion: there's no significant reason to doubt it.)
    Another poster asserts that another NACES-member company does NOT recognize this scheme as a foreign equivalent to a doctorate from an accredited school in the US.

    My assessment:

    Ho-hum. I don't really care what the poster asserts, nor what his opinions of me are, but I certainly reserve the right to comment on them here as a member of this board. (Consistent with the TOS, naturally.)
    In most situations, this set-up will go unnoticed. Typically, one's degree claims go unchallenged. But not always.
    The poster complains about how he was treated on this board then (years ago) and now. I have no doubt why.
  6. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    But IEE is an evaluator who did examine it and came to the conclusion we have here.

    I said it.

    I don't know about UNC, but UCN is a non-profit school.
  7. Rachel83az

    Rachel83az Well-Known Member

    Isn't WES the one that evaluated a completely legit Scottish MBA as being equivalent to an Associate degree?
    Dustin, Neuhaus and SteveFoerster like this.
  8. cacoleman1983

    cacoleman1983 Well-Known Member

    Speaking of WES. My spouse has to have his transcript from the Philippines reevaluated because he had earned more than 54 credit hours in a year but since it was only a year of work, they decreased the credit value to 32 and decreased all course work worth 3 credit hours was evaluated as 2 credit hours and the 2 credit hour courses were evaluated as one credit hour. His community college did not accept it this way. I thought the Philippine system was 1 unit to 1 US credit.
    Rachel83az likes this.
  9. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    I've heard that. To be fair, each evaluation is different and has to be judged on the particulars of what's submitted and an examination of the program, so anything can happen. That said, WES has been known to turn out some of the more outrageous results, but that may also be because of the volume they do versus other evaluators making it inevitable that more of those would come out.
    John Rogers likes this.
  10. cacoleman1983

    cacoleman1983 Well-Known Member

    People think they need that regionally accredited degree so they do the UCN thing to cover their bases. You are right though, most employers won't even care especially if you already have solid work experience in the field. A PhD will be overkill for a vast majority of positions.
  11. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    As I mentioned, IEE is typical in that it can perform two types of evaluation. The one that does the course-by-course evaluation might come to a different conclusion. Or not. It's just speculation at this point.
    Sorry for the typo. It happens.

    As for it's "profit" status, you are quite right. I definitely stand corrected.
  12. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

  13. John Rogers

    John Rogers Member

    This has already definitively settled. I confess that I am goading Rich a little because he won't accept an apology, but won't just let it go either.
    Hilariously, this whole silly thing started because I misunderstood some things he said. I retracted and apologized, but he keeps looking for a way to put me in my place.
    I have no doubt Rich is a wonderful guy and an accomplished scholar, and my comments are not meant to suggest otherwise.

    I said up front that my reason for coming back here was to help people seeking answers on this site who had been subjected to endless abuse for asking about SMCU/UCN. Now that the documentation verifying the facts about SMCU/UCN are in trustworthy hands, my purpose for being here is fulfilled.

    The rest of you may enjoy whatever rebuttal comes next. I have lost interest.
  14. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    Yes, and as I mentioned--and not by speculation--that if one evaluation of a degree from a school has the outcome like the one described here, a different evaluation type won't change that, at least not with IEE anyway. The main reason people get a course-by-course evaluation from IEE is to obtain validation for transferring credit and/or to get a U.S. style GPA calculated, but neither of those things have any bearing on the outcomes in the institution status field nor the US equivalency field which are the two fields of importance here.
    Rich Douglas likes this.
  15. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    When one is bereft of facts, the next turn should be away, not towards another person. Yet you insist on implying it is personal with me. It most certainly is not.

    I have said nothing about you. Also, I've drawn almost no assessments of what you've posted. But I HAVE challenged some of the things you've posted. Yet, you keep talking about me.

    I have not accepted your apology for the same reason I have not rejected it: it is irrelevant to the facts and the matter at hand. You cannot possibly insult me in any way--that is laughable. So, I laugh. :D

    (I have wondered though this thread, "WWLD"? It would not be nearly as genteel and impersonal. I am, thus, guided away from that.)
  16. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    This is a great point. But I have to assume that WES examined this scheme when they came to their standing judgment of it. I suspect they are not alone.
  17. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    There's admittedly a bit more leeway in the Political Discussions forum, but not elsewhere, and you have made more than one personal attack in this thread. Admitting to trolling doesn't help. Knock it off, or take off.
  18. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I think he's trying to be nice, but he blows hot and cold because I'm not playing the personal comment game. If I could hazard a guess, he's having trouble separating comments about this situation from his feelings about it, taking those observations personally. He shouldn't. "Facts is facts." But he seems like a nice enough guy....if he wants to be. But that whole SMC/UCN/IEE thingy is just a bridge too far. But that's my opinion. Instead of getting mad at people pointing out those facts, he should own it. I mean, it's not like Dr. Duck and the Knightsbridge folly.

    (Can't help wondering WWLD?)
  19. John Rogers

    John Rogers Member

    If I may point out one tiny issue with your presenting yourself as some kind of even-handed, objective observer who has made no personal or unprovoked unpleaseant comments:

    “Do you have proof of this?”

    And isn't it "Central University of Nicaragua"? That's what Universidad Central de Nicaragua means in Spanish.

    “I'm not questioning the degrees. I'm asking if their is proof of the claim of a successful equivalency evaluation for a UCN PhD. It doesn't help that he lists the school incorrectly, but again, I'm not questioning that he received these credentials.”

    “With so much information coming from people with skin in the game--people connected to this thing--it would help to actually see the evaluation, especially given the nature of the school. Establishing the fact claimed would be quite the breakthrough, but I don't think such a significant milestone should be accepted prima facie. It needs support.”

    “If the report came from a disinterested party, fine. If it came with support, fine. If it was about a "normal" situation, fine. For now, however, it is an unverified claim by someone with a distinct interest in establishing it as fact.”

    “So, I'll go out on a limb and call it B.S. until demonstrated otherwise.”

    It's not binary. Someone can describe their experiences--even recommend them to others--and not necessarily be called a shill. He could just be a sincere devotee. But...

    When you have skin in the game, you're no longer a disinterested party immune to bias. The more mundane your claim, the easier it is for others to accept. But the more out there it is, the more I'd like to see evidence beyond that (potentially biased) reporter.

    “Finally, "non-regionally accredited" and "unaccredited" should mean two different things. We know what the latter means, but "non-regionally accredited"? Does it mean not unaccredited? Accredited by an unrecognized accreditor? Accredited by a recognized--but non-regional--accreditor (national or professional)? It is an unfortunately vague term of art.”

    “I think we're talking about one doctoral program with a BOGO. I don't know if a Groupon is necessary, however. The time spent isn't unusual, nor unreasonable. But the outcome sure is.”

    All of this before I said even one word directed at you.

    You distinguished gentlemen remind me of the self-appointed keepers of the Combat Infantry Badge in Iraq. Regulation sets forth very specific requirements for it, but there were local commanders who added requirements in an effort to reduce the number of awards. To their credit, they stopped when they were caught doing it.

    Everyone here agreed that a NACES member had to make the determination, so when my DBA was found to be study from a non-regionally accredited school (the exact wording on the report), I was expected to accept the results. Now that my degree from UCN has been found to be equivalent to a Ph.D. from an American university and that UCN is "regionally accredited" (the exact wording on the report), NOW you are questioning the validity of the NACES member organization.

    My experience here so far suggests that there will be a tortured and heroically gymnastic effort explain away the ugliness and snark that preceded any of my communication with Rick Douglas, and that is fine.

    I know what you guys really are, and so do you.

    My Ph.D. is from a regionally accredited university, and has been assessed by a NACES member organization to be equivalent to a Ph.D. from a regionally accredited university in the U.S. Those are the facts. As they are documented and that documentation has been submitted to a well-known member here, the matter should be closed and the information used to assist degree seekers looking for answers.

    The ugliness that ensued here is on you, not me.
    SpoonyNix likes this.
  20. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    And that's enough of that.
    Tireman 44444 likes this.
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