SMC University accreditation Status for PhD Programs

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by erhijakpor, Apr 20, 2010.

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  1. Johann766

    Johann766 Active Member

    It took him 6 years to do the SMC/UCN DBA. If I would attend these kind of schools I would expect to be able to graduate way faster. Otherwise I wouldn´t enroll.
  2. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    Perhaps personal life circumstances played a role in that. However, we are talking about two Doctorates, so I personally see no issue at all with the time spent.
  3. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Well-Known Member

    Some people will struggle to complete a doctorate regardless of the school/program. Everybody's journey will look different.
  4. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I think we're talking about one doctoral program with a BOGO. I don't know if a Groupon is necessary, however.

    The time spent isn't unusual, nor unreasonable. But the outcome sure is.
  5. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    If that's indeed the arrangement, I stand corrected. But it seemed fair to think it was work on two different degrees given the differing titles and degree types. I was under the impression based on one of their sites that the dual-award programs UCN involves themselves in are for same-titled degrees.
  6. John Rogers

    John Rogers Member

    Interesting. I see that not much has changed here.

    In addition to my scholastic pursuits, I was in the U.S. Army for 31 years. I did, in fact, move around quite a bit. The program at SMCU was designed to be completed in three years, but I had to stop twice. COVID also played a part in slowing the process. I am retired from the military now, and was able to buckle down and complete my studies.
    I confess to being somewhat mystified by allusions that I am not being truthful about the accreditation outcome from IEE. Why on earth would I come back after several years to make a false claim about my degree?
    As I said before, there is nothing wrong with the academic rigor of SMCU. The issue is that they are not technically a Swiss university. If a university is not part of the native education system in a country, there is no basis for comparison. A favorable evaluation will not happen.
    SMCU was not forthcoming with this, but the reason for partnering with UCN was for the accreditation. It took a full year for UCN to review my work before conferring the degree. When I received the paperwork, I submitted it to IEE. The degree was judged to be equivalent to a Ph.D. from a regionally accredited U.S. university.
    UCN is accredited by the Nicaraguan Ministry of Education. This provides a basis for evaluation. UCN is not the best university in Nicaragua, nor is it the worst. It is, however, accredited.

    When I came to this site before, I was subjected to all sorts of pompous, inaccurate criticism and snarky advice about my choices. I came back only to offer the experts here some factual information on the outcome.
    Bottom line: SMCU degrees will not be found equivalent to degrees from regionally accredited schools in the U.S. Not because the education is lacking, but because they are not part of the Swiss Canon. The UCN
    partnership addresses that problem with a fully accredited Ph.D.

    Thank you for your time.
  7. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    This is relevant how?
    I have no reason to doubt this. But it would be nice to see proof of it.

    Additionally, assuming this is accurate, it would be very valuable to participants of, and visitors to, this board. (In my opinion.)
    Comes with the territory. But in my opinion, if a UCN PhD--including one earned at SMC--receives a foreign credential evaluation as equivalent to a regionally accredited PhD, that's really important.
    You complain about snark, yet you bring some of your own. Not exactly the high road.

    Oh, it's not that mysterious. You're not a regular poster (26 posts) with a track record, so it's a little much to expect people to accept your claim prima facie. You don't have to put up almost 14,000 posts to gain that instant credibility and acceptance, either. But when a near stranger to this board makes a highly significant claim--possibly a game changer--he shouldn't be surprised if other posters dig a little more deeply.

    Congratulations on your award, your ability to navigate the process with UCN, and your foreign degree evaluation.
  8. John Rogers

    John Rogers Member

    Comes with the territory? The site name is The implication is that it is a place you come to get information about degrees. How does uninformed hostility belong in that territory? Numerous baseless opinions were rendered about SMCU/UCN and relentlessly argued without a shred of supporting data. Now that you have supporting data that might actually be useful to someone considering the program, your response is to spend the evening trying to pick apart my response?

    As to the relevance of my Army experience, that was in response to a question posed in the thread by Joann766 about why it took me six years to complete a three-year program. In my last six years of service I went from Sumter, South Carolina to Stuttgart Germany to Leavenworth, Kansas, then made an ETS move to Georgia and started civilian employment. You may not think that is relevant. I kind of think it might be.

    "But when a near stranger to this board makes a highly significant claim--possibly a game-changer--he shouldn't be surprised if other posters dig a little more deeply."

    Your point about my only having 26 posts is well taken. I have so few posts because I only came here to talk about things I wanted to know or offer information to assist other people, not to attack anyone with different views or experience from my own. Your point about digging is not so well taken, however. What digging? All I have seen on this is a series of uninformed opinions and unpleasant rhetoric. No actual digging was done as far as I can see.

    I returned to offer useful, factual information based on actual experience, not to gain anyone's approval. I am hesitant to post the evaluation documents because they could be copied and used for illicit purposes. Whether or not you personally believe me is not of great concern to me unless you are offering me employment.

    Regarding non-accredited institution vs. unaccredited - both my parents-in-law were veterinarians in a foreign country. We had their degrees evaluated here in the U.S., and they were found to have legitimate degrees from non-accredited regional institutions. They could legally use the title "Dr.", but could not use the degree for professional purposes until they passed a licensing exam. I am extrapolating here, but I would submit that my actual experience provides a basis for the following assessment: To have a doctorate from a non-accredited regional institution would suggest that while the title "Dr." may be legitimately used socially, it cannot be used as a professional credential for, say, working at a University in a professorial status. I do know for certain that to be a legitimate credential for a U.S. government job, a foreign degree must be determined to be equivalent to a regionally accredited degree of the same level by a NACES member organization.
  9. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    Hi John,

    Would you be so kind as to post a pdf or jpg of the evaluation? I would really appreciate it. I believe you, but we always ask to see the evaluation as it shuts the case on anyone who has doubts and helps people who may be interested in a school have more confidence in getting enrolled there. Considering the insane prices of American higher education, you would be greatly helping those people.
  10. John Rogers

    John Rogers Member

    Check your messages, LA
  11. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Of all the ridiculous things posted here over the years, the suggestion that Rich is "uninformed" on this topic is probably the most so.
  12. John Rogers

    John Rogers Member

    "Of all the ridiculous things posted here over the years, the suggestion that Rich is "uninformed" on this topic is probably the most so."

    I suppose that is why this was conclusively cleared up seven years ago and direct experience is not being baselessly questioned.

    Oh, wait...

    I have offered to send LA my credential evaluation under separate cover. Whether it fits the opinions of the experts here, my degree has the same social, professional, and academic standing of any Ph.D. here. The need to collectively be a petulant baby about it says more about this site than it will ever say about me.

    And perhaps saying Rich is uninformed about this topic is unfair. Let's just say "dead wrong".
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2021
  13. John Rogers

    John Rogers Member

    Mmm. I went back and re-read Rich's post. It was not as hostile the second time through. I may still be harboring a bit of resentment from my first series of visits to this site, so I apologize.
    My intent here was to clarify a subject that is clearly still in dispute. As I said before, I will send my documentation to LA, if I may assume her word is good enough for you fine people.

    The fact of the matter is that when I went through, the curriculum at SMCU had programmic accreditation, which is meaningless for institutional accreditation. Institutional accreditation is based on an institution's compliance with the standards set forth in their native system. This is not an opinion, but a fact. No matter how good the SMCU education may have been, it was established in Switzerland outside the Swiss Canon. Not going to be accredited under those circumstances. Never going to be accredited under those circumstances.

    UCN, on the other hand, IS an established part of the Nicaraguan educational system and is accredited through the Ministry of Education. For this reason, it receives regional accreditation status in the US. It has nothing to do with the rigor of the program, only compliance with its native system.

    I paid about $10,000 for both my non-regionally accredited DBA and my regionally accredited equivalent Ph.D., which I can document. With the exorbitant price of education in the U.S., I think this is a viable option IF you understand the waters you have chosen to dive into. Had I not taken the UCN option, I would have no useable doctorate level credential.

    Again, my apologies for interpreting a fairly innocuous response as overtly hostile.

    Thank you.
    SteveFoerster likes this.
  14. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    So, then to get back to brass tacks, I totally agree with you here:

    It's interesting to note that there are two institutions in question. One is the one you did, "old SMC", the Swiss institution with the partnership with UCN. The other is the organizationally distinct "new SMC", which offers a more streamlined set of programs, is based in and accredited in Malta, and as such can be expected to be accepted internationally on its own:
  15. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member


    Your responses to me are clownish and hostile. Yes, I dug further, you just didn't like what was being asked. You come into this board, make sweeping generalizations about it and its participants, and expect what? Silence? Acceptance?

    As for being "dead wrong," what am I wrong about? As far as I can recall, I haven't made any significant assertions or assessments that you've actually objected to. (Those are coming.)

    Speaking of a "petulant baby," you're the one who brought this--and yourself--into the center of attention and then complained when others commented on it.

    Gee, you'd think someone was questioning the validity of attending an unrecognized school to earn a credential from a for-profit university recognized by a country's lightweight higher education scheme not ranked in the top 100 in the world (lower than such local luminaries as El Salvador and Guatemala), a school not even found in the Times University Rankings of more than 2,100 schools. Fortunately, no one is doing that.

    Again, congratulations on your award, your ability to navigate the process with UCN, and your foreign degree evaluation.
  16. John Rogers

    John Rogers Member

    Or, read what I said, which settles the question you and your esteemed colleagues here have not been able to clearly address for the past seven years.
    Based on my own experience, I have provided a factual accounting of the situation with SMCU. If you wish to continue cleverly navel-gazing on the subject, have at. My information is based on having successfully navigating the system, and was intended to assist those interested in doing the same. I am not certain what you are trying to accomplish.
  17. John Rogers

    John Rogers Member

    It is the same organization, but seems to be attempting re-branding. After the accreditation fiasco in Ghana they were probably seeking a cleaner fit. By awarding degrees through a partnership in Malta and locating offices there as well, the tortured route to accreditation is a little less convoluted. I would submit that getting regional accreditation equivalence in the U.S. should still be valid with the new arrangement based on my own experience and research on the subject.
  18. John Rogers

    John Rogers Member

    I would also speculate that they let their programmic accreditation lapse because it did not help them with institutional accreditation. This is purely speculation, but it makes sense if their focus is on institutional accreditation. As it has been for most SMCU students, my path to an accredited doctoral degree has been a combination of discovery learning and trial and error extraneous to the academic pursuit itself.
  19. John Rogers

    John Rogers Member

    I made an effort to apologize, which you may not have seen.
    When I referred to digging, I meant digging into the facts - not into me. You say yourself that you have not made any meaningful assertions or assessments on a question that has been unresolved for at least seven years. Yet, when I bring new, conclusive information to the forum, your response is not to question the validity of the information, but my integrity.

    Perhaps my sweeping generalizations about this site and its participants are hasty, but they are based on every single post I have ever seen, read, or made about SMCU here. I guess that is on me for relying on my limited, extremely unpleasant exposure to said participants. In my defense, who among us would happily eat an entire bowl of soup when the first few spoon-fulls taste like asshole?

    I can only legitimately speak from my own experience, but one of the things underscored in my doctoral studies was that opinions are only really valuable when they are based on established facts, sourced and documented. If my efforts to bring that to this particular discussion has upset some intellectual protocol on this site of which I am not aware, for that I also apologize.
  20. Mac Juli

    Mac Juli Well-Known Member


    I attended SMC University in 2013 and I thought it was really bad. I mean, really BAD. If something they did, together with UCN or not, is accepted as RA now, I am sincerely amazed. Maybe they got some things right since then...

    Best regards,
    Mac Juli
    newsongs likes this.
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