Salt Lake Bible College??

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by Hotdillon, Jun 13, 2011.

  1. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Good example, Steve. And then there was that excellent "fake" mathematician pen-named Nicolas Bourbaki, who was actually a group of people.

    Nicolas Bourbaki - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I respectfully disagree with Phdtobe completely. I like what Kizmet says. Here on a forum, you are what you post. Content is everything.

    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  2. Phdtobe

    Phdtobe Well-Known Member

    We may be on a different wave lengths. The content of the character makes the difference - let me elaborate a little. Name one fake name from Degreeinfo that we are aware of that is making a difference in online education.
    Now list the many real people from Degreeinfo who are making a difference.
    I can think of a few, dr pina, dr bear, gollin, Foerster, Jennifer (cookderosa), dr Ambrose, dr Randall, dr lady, ++++ last but not least kizmet and johann.
  3. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Hmm. Except that there may be some, but we don't know, because we don't know their real names and it's under those that they would presumably be making that difference. :confused:
  4. RAM PhD

    RAM PhD Member

    You mean I'm not making a difference? :jester:
  5. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Well, in real life it may very well -- and I recognize the late Rev. Dr. King's phrase and am familiar with his context.

    But this is the Internet. It's not real life. Very, very different rules apply. :smile:

    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  6. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Hmm. To the extent that this is true, it shouldn't be.
  7. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Undeniably, Steve. But I believe it is true, to a considerable extent. However, my real point is:

    Whether some person posts as Johann (alias) or Kim Jong Un (if that's his real name) doesn't matter. On the Internet, it's about what the person says. If you really want to judge the "content of his/her character" as Phdtobe and Dr. King put it -- there's your clue - what's said. Some people are not very "brave" or willing to put up with any on- or offline malice or foolishness their statements may attract. An alias filters that stuff. Some are willing to take that risk. Good for them, but I'm not one.

    I say the name on the posting has very little -- no, absolutely nothing -- to do with what kind of people they are. One is not superior in character to the other. This is the Internet and avatars, aliases are allowed. Look at the number here! Are all these people morally inferior just because they don't reveal their names for the possible abuse and pleasure of cyber-miscreants?

    I think that's ridiculous. I don't think less of anyone or belittle them for believing it -- but I'm not having any! :smile:

    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 14, 2013
  8. docvbk

    docvbk New Member

    Answer to doubters

    There was some question about my credentials and SLBC's accreditation.

    I have never awarded myself a degree. I earned my Bachelor of Theology from Texas Baptist Bible College. Later I earned my Master and then Doctor of Theology and Doctor of Literature from Salt Lake Baptist College. Both are earned doctorates.

    Several years later, while teaching at SLBC, I was asked to take the position of Vice President. I accepted. I praise God that He allowed me to one day become the president of the college that I once attended as a student.

    When our online arm, Salt Lake Bible College, was formed I was given the office of President of that College. Several years later, after assuming the Vice President position at Salt Lake Baptist College, the man who was the President left the college and I received the appointment as President of that College. I currently hold the position of President for both of the colleges.

    The ASIC accreditation is listed on the CHEA International Quality Control Group.
    Some of the pages at CHEA have changed so here are the current (2016) links:
    Opening page of the CIQCG: CHEA International Quality Group
    That page explains what CIQCG is and what membership in it means.

    The list of Accrediting agencies who are members of CIQCG can now be found at:

    Salt Lake Baptist College and our International online arm, Salt Lake Bible College, are both colleges of the University of America, which is Accredited by ASIC; and as such fall under the accreditation of the UofA.

    Both Salt Lake Baptist College and Salt Lake Bible College are recognized by and are listed with the Utah Education Network as a Private School (Higher Education-Private) in the state of Utah.
    Utah Schools - UEN

    Our theological accreditation is with the Baptist Schools Accrediting Agency.
    It is stated on that site that accreditation is for Theological purposes only.
    Baptist Schools Accrediting Association

    We want to make it perfectly clear! Our degrees are for theological/Church purposes only. We seek to train men and women for work in the ministry or for them to act as lay persons better equipped to serve in their Local Church.

    Any statements that may have mislead potential or current students or anyone else into thinking our degrees can be used for other than theological/Church purposes were purely accidental. We have now included specific statements on our website and in some of our required forms to clarify the use of our degrees to prevent any such misunderstandings.

    We seek only to train men and women for the ministry- around the world.
    We are doing so with a current student body of over 10,000. In addition, another 30,000 to 35,000 people are being trained using the free materials from our website in Local Churches of every stripe and belief as well as from a dozen colleges worldwide who are using our material. Last year we graduated 140 students in a half-dozen countries; some from our online college and the rest from our Study Centers around the world.

    I hope this clears up any remaining questions. If you want further information please contact me. [email protected] or [email protected].

    Doc Van
  9. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    I'm so pleased that the good doctor has seen fit to revive this thread. Let the games begin!
  10. Garp

    Garp Active Member

    It appears the college is not accredited by an agency recognized in the US. Also, a bit confused by the University of America connection. They use the web address with edu in the first part of the URL. I assume they are not entitled a .edu. The University of America - Brief information about UA*and Its Academic Services. This leads me to believe that whatever their UK recognition is or is not it does not entitle Salt Lake or UA to a dot edu address.
  11. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    No, only institutions accredited by an agency recognized by the U.S. Department of Education are eligible to register a .edu domain name, along with a few unaccredited schools that were grandfathered in when that rule was instituted.

    As concerning, the people who run the University of America cannot spell, and their web site is an ugly and confusing jumble.
  12. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    First, let me say that I always have more respect for individuals who come here, disclose their relationship and try to engage in meaningful dialogue. This is much better than the anonymous shills we normally see around here.

    Of course, that doesn't mean we're going to agree with everything said. But I do respect those who are trying to offer legitimate, if unaccredited, programs and who are willing to defend their programs.

    Thank you for disclosing all of this. I doubt it will sway any of your critics, however, considering that the college you now head awarded you both your masters and doctorate. However, I am personally of the opinion that this matters a little less in religious contexts.

    The example I have used is that I can, legally, today establish a denomination called Neuhausian Christianity. And there will be no greater expert in Neuhausianism than me. Because the precise theology being taught by schools of theology can vary greatly I don't necessarily subscribe to the school that you need to have a degree from another religious school to teach/start your own religious school. But I believe that's a minority opinion around these parts.

    I don't know if you searched around the forum but ASIC is a hot button issue around these parts.

    The inclusion in the CHEA directory is nice but it doesn't actually mean anything. Degrees from SLBC would not be recognized as accredited in the U.S. regardless of your ASIC accreditation. Get yourself a royal charter in the UK, some recognition by act of parliament in the UK or Canada, or recognition by some foreign ministry of education and maybe a third party evaluator would determine that your school had recognition equivalent to U.S. accreditation.

    But as of today it doesn't.

    Warnborough University relied pretty heavily on ASIC accreditation as its primary means of proving legitimacy. Without Irish approval, Warnborough was apparently trying to say that their degree was "OK" because it had UK accreditation (through ASIC) but the UK doesn't recognize Warnborough's authority to award degrees and the Irish didn't bite either.

    Yes, your school has various accreditations. But it is not an "accredited" school in the sense that it is not accredited by a CHEA/USDOE recognized accreditor. That's what people are looking for when they ask if a school is "accredited."

    Good. And it's fine that your school has ASIC accreditation. But when you try to confuse the issue by pointing out that ASIC is included in a directory on CHEA's website (meaningless) it sounds a bit shadier.

    Your school is not accredited by a CHEA/DOE recognized accreditor and there are a handful of states where publicly claiming a degree from your school would be illegal. For "in church" use that shouldn't matter. Own this reality and move on.

    One of the things I like about Atlantic International University is that they are incredibly clear about their status on their website. They are also ASIC accredited. And yet they clearly state on their website that they are not accredited by a CHEA/DOE recognized accreditor.

    Granted, I don't believe it was altruistic on their part. I think Hawaii requires them to post that statement conspicuously.

    Your accreditation page is anything but clarifying. That simple statement would answer a lot of questions in a simple line. Instead, it's a jumble of accreditations and affiliations that can really only serve to confuse.

    The average person has no idea how accreditation in the U.S. works. Your accreditation page allows them to look at it and say "Oh, hey, this school IS accredited." And it is, just not in the way that higher education accreditation works in this country.

    And that's admirable. But it's also something you could do without awarding academic degrees. I think your number of critics would cut in half if you only offered diplomas or certificates (or made up something) rather than awarding academic degrees.

    Functionally, that's all you're really offering. Your degrees would not be accepted in higher ed circles, secular employment circles or even in many ministry circles.

    At $15/month I think it's fairly clear that you aren't running a billion dollar scam. But affiliating yourself with the University of America isn't really helping your cause, either.

    Their website seems to indicate that they have medical, osteopathic medical, naturopathy, pharmacy, dental, optometry, "CHIROPRACTORY(sic)" and law programs. All without any form of U.S. accreditation and with the promise of "worldwide clinical internships."

    If I had the time and inclination I'd love to take them up on the offer to clarify this statement:

    I think whatever spin they put on that would probably be worth a chuckle.
  13. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator Staff Member

    Where can we read your dissertations?

    From where do Texas Bible Baptist College and Salt Lake Baptist College derive their degree-granting authority?
  14. mbwa shenzi

    mbwa shenzi Active Member

    And does this degree-granting authority cover the degrees awarded by Spread the Word Bible College in Benin City, Nigeria too? STWBC claims its both fully accredited and authorized to grant religious degrees. As I understand it, STWBC is an approved study center of Salt Lake Bible College.

    Re The University of America: did Universidad Azteca and Universidad Central de Nicaragua stop validating UofA degrees?
  15. heirophant

    heirophant Well-Known Member

    Texas Baptist Bible College operates under a Texas religious exemption. I'm guessing that Salt Lake Baptist College does the same in that state.

    Salt Lake Baptist College claims to be a branch of something called the University of America. University of America is ASIC 'accredited' and appears to my eye to be a real piece of work.

    The University of America - Home

    It claims to be "chartered" in California, apparently referring to a business license. It displays the BPPE logo on its website, while telling us that it's exempt from BPPE oversight. The BPPE's directory of approved institutions doesn't list it.

    The University of America - Brief information about UA*and Its Academic Services

    Its list of degree programs includes every subject imaginable including medicine, dentistry, surgery, optometry, pharmacy, law, clinical psychology and doctoral degrees in all of the sciences and humanities.

    The University of America - The U.A**Degree* Programs

    But it looks like the only degree programs actually offered by the U. of America in America are degrees in theology, thus technically qualifying it for a California religious exemption, I guess. The rest of the programs may or may not originate in Lagos Nigeria.

    Its website there seems to have expired, but here's a short pdf promotional brochure:

    Interestingly, this Nigerian thing calls itself a branch of the prestigious University of America 'system'. Page 2 assures its Nigerian students "Our courses are European Government and American accredited: the degrees are awarded by The University of America USA, the Universidad Central de Nicaragua and Universidad de Azteca de Chalco in Mexico".

    I'm not impressed.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 3, 2016
  16. mbwa shenzi

    mbwa shenzi Active Member

    Exactly the kind of statement that makes me want to send an email to the National Universities Commission in Nigeria.
  17. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    Don't forget "Chiropractory."

    I also thought the doctorate in "Psychiatric Medicine" was an interesting touch.
    Michael Burgos likes this.
  18. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator Staff Member

  19. mbwa shenzi

    mbwa shenzi Active Member

    Re the U.A. College of Science and Technology in Nigeria. This is what UofA says on its website:

    It's also stated that

    I would expect then to find the college listed with other private universities in Nigeria on the National Universities Commission's list of private universities in Nigeria but it seems to me it's not on that list Private Universities | National Universities Commision
  20. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    Just a side note...

    There IS a University of America that appears to be legitimate. But it is located in Bogata, Colombia.

    They're in "America" too, remember.

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