Republicans still believe Trump's election loss was the result of a rigged election

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by Bill Huffman, Apr 12, 2021.

  1. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    The questions being asked are the investigators grifters or experts?
    This is an investigation like none that has ever been performed.
    This investigation is a check for all forms of mischief.

    Do I see red flags, yes.

    But if there will be credible findings it will be presented to a court with evidence.
    So if its a sham it will get dismissed, if not a sham then other steps will follow.
    Independent forensic investigation by GOP is not necessary a MAGA sham, It may benefit MAGA interests, but its another investigation that is testing additional allegations and even conspiracy theories, rather than simply recounting votes.
    So as I understand the review isn’t following standard recounting procedures with representatives of both parties observing at the tables.
    Among many things the investigators are checking for bamboo fibers to test a theory that tens of thousands of fake ballots were shipped from Asia.

    I do have many questions about the credibility of this effort and understand all the criticism about the expertise and motives.
    They been running this investigation for some time now, with stops and strong resistance by the left.
    They claim they are after the truth and checking what others didn't check before.
  2. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

  3. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    The reasons that the sham audit is a sham is explained in the article that you link to. It explains what makes the audit a sham and explains why those practices can't lead to any valid conclusions. A real audit completion has known expectations for success and at it's completion it is known whether or not it successfully validated the results or not. This sham audit does not have any of those qualities.

    The head of Cyber Ninja's will want to publish scandalous results in the final report because that is his goal from the beginning. Plus he is making money off of it and he will want to conduct sham audits for other states to make more money which guarantees that the final report will feed the lie that Trump won the election.
  4. Vonnegut

    Vonnegut Well-Known Member

    You're absolutely right and you've hit the nail on the head. Heather Cox Richardson shared a video awhile back, summarizing some research, and actually implored people to watch it to have a better understanding of what's going on. I would implore you to do so as well.

    Last edited: Jun 13, 2021
  5. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Trump will run in 2024 and will be nominated then lose the general election. His hand will be evident in the 2022 election as well where his influence will go a long way toward keeping Democratic majorities in both Houses. The campaign ads write themselves!
  6. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    That was great! Thank you so much for posting that. This professor ran a detailed study of the 420 people arrested from the January 6 insurrection. Very interesting findings.

    I agree with everything you say except I really doubt that Trump will run himself in 2024. If he did, I agree, he would win the nomination but lose the general election. His ego is just too fragile. He will dance around the possibility of going for the nomination to maximize donations but I really doubt that he'll run again. He has this mental block about being a loser and his ego is about as robust as a 10 year-old bully's ego.
    Vonnegut likes this.
  7. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    This investigation is a propagandistic sham.

    Lerner, you left a country where just about everything was a propagandistic sham. You of all people should have better eye for this kind of stuff.
  8. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

  9. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Lerner, this quote about Republicans having poor judgement, perhaps I misinterpreted or didn't answer completely.

    I assume that Steve is meaning that it is poor judgement to believe that the the election was rigged. For anyone that tries to be informed in politics, I have to agree with Steve. It is poor judgment to believe that Trump won the election. All the evidence says that this is false. It is poor judgement to disbelieve all the evidence and base the judgement only on the words of a pathological liar.

    If what this poor judgement statement was referring to was the MAGA porn label then perhaps I should explain further. The MAGA porn label refers to how porn is just a fantasy. It is not real, at least not generally. They are actors and actresses following a script and the director's directions. It is a made up thing that brings some emotional satisfaction to the viewer. This is exactly right on! For example the headline copied here "Antrim County Attorney DePerno Releases BOMBSHELL Report – Claims County Voting Machines Were Remotely Logged into – Decertifies Entire Antrim Election" was an article that had no substance. It was essentially just a title that is meant to bring emotional satisfaction to the Republican viewer that believes in Trump's big election lie. It is just pure MAGA porn. Just like 90% of this stuff claiming that there was election fraud.
  10. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Real porn doesn't threaten violence against public officials.
  11. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Yes porn is significantly less dangerous to our country and our wellbeing. It's not a perfect analogy.
  12. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    For the greater than 50% of Republicans that believe Trump won the 2020 election, the poor judgement that really leads directly to their detachment from reality is most the poor judgement to get all their news from far right biased news sources. But that is still poor judgement.
  13. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    I looked up on As a reminder The Gateway Pundit is the website that published the almost null content article with "BOMBSHELL" in the title that inspired Steve to come up with the MAGA porn label. Anyway, mediaBiasFactCheck rates the site as worst on both scales.

    The Gateway Pundit publishes extremely right-biased news and commentary that promotes conspiracy theories and the routine publication of falsehoods ... On 6/6/2021, The Gateway Pundit was moved to Very-Low factual reporting based on failed facts on a near-daily basis.

    With Republicans reading news sources like The Gateway Pundit it's not so surprising that over 50% of Republicans believe the lie that Trump really won the election!
    SteveFoerster likes this.
  14. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Most GOP voters know this:
    The media, is big business, once was generally conservative though liberal thinking now predominates within them.
    So the search for alternate media is on the rise.
    Positions that once lay in the mainstream of society only a few years previously are being increasingly labeled as far right or ultra-right.
    FuX N - became a puppet for the liberal media, and liberal censorship in the aftermath of the 2020 elections, and had drifted leftward earlier as well.

    O’Sullivan’s First Law - describes the leftward drift of many politicians, leaders, and organizations. First coined by John O'Sullivan in 1989, it states: "All organizations that are not actually right wing will over time become left wing."

    Venezuela was once an oil-rich nation that could have lifted its people out of poverty and become a shining example of progress and development in Latin America. It was a vibrant democracy.
    The country enjoyed universal voting, a free press, and oftentimes a million people would turn out for a political rally.

    GOP voters think that many socialist policies promoted/pushed by Dem's are the same that destroyed Venezuela.

    This is why they voted GOP.
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2021
  15. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    I would suggest that when a Republican is doing a "search for alternate media" that truthful reporting be held in higher regard than looking for media that is telling the lies that said Republican wants to believe.

    Regarding the Venezuela paragraph, let me respond with a similar story about the USSR. When the USSR dissolved itself, it looked like democracy might have a chance. Instead Russia got Putin who bad mouths democracy and paints it as a chaotic option that he is the solution too in Russia. Putin being being the autocrat dictator he argues is far better than messy democracy. Democracy is dead in Russia. This is very similar to Trump's argument that our democracy in 2020 is a failure that can only be solved by reinstalling Trump back into the presidency. Trump wants to do away with democracy in the USA and make himself the dictator. The only real difference between the 2020 election and previous presidential elections is that the loser of the 2020 election has decided to try to destroy our democracy instead of accepting the results of the election.

    Democratic voters think that many anti-democracy policies promoted/pushed by the GOP are poised to destroy democracy in the USA.

    People voting GOP don't bother me in the least. People trying to destroy our democracy because they lost the last election is a different matter.
  16. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Dem's use crisis or disadvantage groups to get elected only to forget about them or make the crisis worse.

    Very typical
    "President Biden promised to take action within the first 100 days of being elected,"
    "What a change of tone, right? When it was just past week when we heard Vice President Kamala Harris say, ‘Do not come. Do not come.’"
    Who knows if not for the this issue that Biden got an advantage in elections.
    Very typical of Dem's.
  17. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    They may "know" that, but is it true? Does the trope of "big business' liberal thinking" even make a shred of sense?

    That is true. Example: opposition to interracial dating/marriage used to be mainstream, now increasingly relegated to right-wing fringe. Same for women and LGBT in armed forces.
    I'd say this is good.
    Your turn: which now-right wing views YOU think SHOULD be back in the mainstream?

    Did it now? #ucker Carson is left-wing? I'd say not. Other than in the neo-QAnon sense, where "left wing" is anything not playing directly into preconceived delusions.

    People make any number of nonsensical statements and call them "laws". It's a cultural constant since forever; the only thing changed is the scale of those cults that take these seriously.

    One of the most annoying effects Trumpomania had is this mental damage, where previously normal people start talking in Trump's weasely "many people say" way. Are YOU one of these people who "think", "know" and "vote" the way of people you call "them"? Trump talks this way because he is a cowardly con artist who's deathly afraid of being contradicted, or because he knows he makes stuff up. What is your deal?

    Policies promoted/pushed by mainstream Democrats (including MOST of Bernie's positions) are mainly to the right of what is the sacrosanct status quo in, like, Canada. Canada is many things, and above all far less than advertised. What it is not is "venezuela", "communist", or "destroyed". So people you call "them" (even though they clearly include you) are just factually mis-informed, or actively misleading.
  18. Vonnegut

    Vonnegut Well-Known Member

    I'm sure there is an increased search for alternative media. It's always a struggle to seek truth and not simply validation at the expense of truth. Corresponding with the demise of Fox News being favored by the right, have been a number of fascinating lawsuits on accountability. Remember that it wasn't that long ago when Fox's own legal defense team stated in court, on record, that their people can not be trusted... Again, and again, and again, we see the right-wing media organizations and spokespeople being held... accountable for deception and admitting it in court. We see them consistently using the legal defense that "no reasonable person would believe them"... when they're pushed to legally defend themselves. It's strange to see the reaction to accountability, ethics, integrity, and truthfulness... Other than the more predominant outlets starting to back off from egregious falsehoods (as they themselves have admitted in court), I'm not sure where I'm seeing censorship or a liberal takeover.

    Perhaps my vision's not the best though, as at the very least I'm not seeing any major socialists policies being implemented that are akin to what destroyed Venezuela. Honestly curious what it is you see, and respect your opinion and background. Perhaps it's that I'm more of a moderate in many political areas, that I ignore the fringe from both parties. There's plenty of political editorials out there discussing the lack of a progressive agenda on the Democratic platform. Considering how Biden has been treated by many GOP members, as a long standing and respectable moderate colleague, I'm not sure of anyone who considers him a progressive, yet alone someone like Chavez.

    Won't disagree that politicians leverage or use crisis for their advantage, I simply think that's a common nature of politics more so than any party. Personally though, I'm more concerned about the fabrications of crisis to take advantage of the electorate or citizens or democracy and our Nation's institutions.

    Everyone's optics are different, but I'm not seeing the GOP that my grandfather told me about as a youth. I'm seeing a fearful party that has betrayed courage, integrity, religion, ethics, and simply sold themselves to special interests. We literally just watched the GOP dismiss one of their senior congressional members... for insisting on speaking the truth about the election. We've seen hundreds of long-standing GOP supporters and administration officials of previous Republican Presidents renounce the party/party nominee for betraying honesty and integrity. We're seeing some younger GOP members starting new organizations with the potential to create a new conservative party. Personally, just don't see how anyone can vote GOP these days... unless they're embracing what the GOP legal defenders are stating in court, stuff that "no reasonable person would believe" or.... are simply voting out of fear. As a wise and short sage once said... "Fear is the path to the darkside. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering."
  19. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Biden's first 100 days 28 out of 61 promises kept.

    Trumps first 100 days, 10 out of 38 promises kept.

    The one broken promise that Biden didn't keep that you bring up is the fact that he has kept the immigration to similar to Trump's policy! Very typical Republican complain complaining just to complaint. Percentage wise Biden has kept 46% of his promises versus Trump keeping 26% of his promises in the first 100 days.
  20. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    On the issue I posted what my good friend Jose told me is that there is due diligence and there is fighting or putting some real actions for an issue.
    Submitting something doing due diligence is good but its not what he expected.
    Allegations ( As Rice, Cary and others are back) are the BO is really running the things from a cross the street from WH.
    Here is something from GA audit.
    Docs come from GA government I think.

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