Republicans still believe Trump's election loss was the result of a rigged election

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by Bill Huffman, Apr 12, 2021.

  1. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Washington, DC, April 2, 2021 – A new Reuters/Ipsos poll finds that most Americans agree that former President Donald Trump was partly to blame for the Jan. 6th riot at the Capitol, and 61% agree that he should not run for president again in 2024. However, support for Trump among his Republican base remains strong as 55% of Republicans believe his 2020 election loss resulted from illegal voting or election rigging. Paradoxically, 35% of Republicans agreed with both of the following theories: that the people who gathered at the U.S. Capitol on Jan 6th were peaceful, law-abiding Americans and that it was actually led by violent left-wing protestors trying to make Trump look bad. To that end, 81% of Republicans still view Trump favorably.

    My assertion is that Fox News prime time shows are still not telling the truth about the 2020 election. This is the only way I can imagine that so many Republicans can still believe Trump's lie that he really won the election in a landslide. I would be very interested in other theories, if you have one.
  2. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." ― Voltaire
  3. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Republicans have differing views on the past elections.
    They know that they lost to the COVID 19.
    Many republicans think that rules changed in favor of voting by mail "for the safety of voters" that more friendly to the democrat votes.
    They are republicans who think that the election wasn't fair and serious flaws etc.
    They will try to work on creating even ground for the next elections. Now focusing on 2022 effort to try to win the house.

    Irony meets hypocrisy? Amazon argues that in-person ballots are crucial for valid & fair election!
  4. Mac Juli

    Mac Juli Well-Known Member

    Look up the Theory of Cognitive Dissonance of Leon Feistinger. To me, it explains everything in this context - even if Fox News told them, they would still chose not to believe it.
  5. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Of course different people are going to have different opinions about different things. That is the way the world works. Your assertions above I'm sure are true. As I think I've explained before, my own wife would have voted for Tump in 2020 if she didn't think he botched the covid19 response. I don't see the relevance to this poll or the question asked in the opening post of this thread, however. Those things were not asked in the poll.

    Trump's big lie is that the 2020 election was stolen from him. A majority of Republicans still believe that lie. That is what the poll shows. The question is why? I put forth the theory that Fox News is still pushing that lie is a big reason. My wife listens primarily to CBS News. She doesn't believe the big lie. Last I remember your stated position on this issue was that you were 20% sure that the election was stolen from Trump. What are your beliefs and your fellow family Republican's beliefs on this question of a rigged election and where do you and they get their news?
  6. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Some would choose not to believe Fox if the said the election was valid but I doubt a majority would. I think the Theory of Cognitive Dissonance explains part of it though. When they hear a bit of news from another news outlet like CBS, ABC, NBC etc. Also, this poll shows 55% believe it earlier polls indicated like 77% of Republicans believed the Big Lie. So it is apparently going down some.
  7. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Here's an interview with the ex-PM of Australia. He personally knows the Murdochs. he states that same thing as this thread. That the Big Lie is believed by the majority of Republicans because of Fox News. He also states Steve's point about the damage this lie costs us. He stated that the Murdochs knew that Trump was not qualified to be President but backed him anyway because they knew that they could easily manipulate him. He importantly reminds us that we shouldn't really blame the Republicans for believing these lies. The blame more fairly rests on Fox News and the Murdochs.
  8. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Fox supporting the GOP, Right, YES. Just like CNM, and MSMBC support Democrats.
  9. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    It is true that CNN and MSNBC lean left, similar to the way that Fox leans right. CBS, NBC, and ABC do not lean left nearly as far as the other three news agencies lean though. See Also it isn't true that CNN and MSNBC are just like Fox News. For example, point out a lie fostered by Democrats, CNN, and MSNBC that a majority of Democrats fell for. A lie that had dire consequences like causing an insurrection. The Republicans believed the Big Lie and a majority still do according to this poll.

    See Steve's quote "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." ― Voltaire which does a good job summarizing why this web of blatant lies spun by Trump and Fox News was very bad and lead to the January 6th insurrection.

    It is much less likely that this could happen on the left.

    First-Trump is a petrological liar. He focused on putting the Republican base in his web of lies for four years. This was his highest priority, far above governing or anything else. No other such person has ever existed on the left. I hope it very unlikely that another pathological liar gets elected to President on either the left or the right.

    Second- Trump and Fox had a symbiotic relationship. Very unlikely that we will ever see three entities working together in this way, CNN, MSNBC and pathological liar. On top of that, I'll guess that more Democrats watch ABC, CBS, and NBC than Republicans. That would make this web of lies just that much harder to spin on the left.
  10. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Come on, look at how fawning the White House press corps was when Biden did a press conference. And this isn't new. When Obama was running in 2008, Chris Matthews on MSNBC was so openly adoring that I was genuinely surprised he wasn't appointed to the administration.
  11. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    You seem to have completely misread my post. I EXPLICITLY stated that CNN and MSNBC lean left! So I see absolutely no relevance your statement has to my post. Point out a lie fostered by Democrats, CNN, and MSNBC that a majority of Democrats fell for. Otherwise you have not dented the theory I made about lying by the media and majority of Democrats falling for it. Nor have you even bothered to question my explanation as to why I believe my assertion is likely to remain true.
  12. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Lean left sounds to mild.
    I think they are solid left.
  13. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    What a curiously worded statement. In what way was it "more friendly to the democratic voters"? Did it enable a systemic fraud by actors affiliated with the Democratic Party? I strongly believe this wouldn't be true; in fact, there's demonstrably no treason to believe that. Then what?
  14. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    For one, I was more impressed by Biden's press conference than most of the press commentators. This is partly because of somewhat low expectations people had of the "moderate Joe", and partly because of the redonkulously low bar that was set by Fox et all with the whole "Biden is senile" hogwash.
    Discussing it this way sort of hints at some sort of equivalency between what Fox does and what CNN does. That's not a fair way to put it. Yes, CNNs of the world have a liberal-leaning way to frame some topics, but what is the Democratic Big Lie?
  15. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    Lies aplenty. Insurrection aplenty ("mostly peaceful" of course...)

    In no particular order, here's a short list of extremely harmful CNN lies:

    - All other things being equal, women get paid less than men for the same job.

    - All other things being equal, black people are disproportionately more likely than white people to be shot and killed by police.

    - Transgender kids know their permanent gender identity with certainty before reaching puberty.

    - Michael Brown was shot while surrendering, with his hands up.

    - Police went to the wrong address, did not announce entry and shot first in the Breonna Taylor case.

    - Antifa is an idea, not a group. Since they call themselves antifascist, they must be antifascist and there's no need to question them beyond that.

    - Voter ID laws are racist.

    - Nobody is pro-life. Only anti-women.

    - CHAZ/CHOP was a utopia.

    - The McCloskeys pointed their guns at and made terroristic threats against peaceful protesters who broke no laws, had announced no violent intention and stayed on public property.

    - The Covington students confronted, threatened and antagonized a mild mannered Native American activist, not the other way around.

    - Donald Trump told the American people to consume cleaning products to kill COVID-19 in the body.

    - The majority of mass shooters are white men.

    - There is overwhelming evidence that Brett Kavanaugh is a rapist. None of his accusers recanted their stories. None of the details of Christine Ford's account were proven to be false. There is no indication whatsoever that she may have had a political motive. The only people who would even question any of this are pro-rape.

    - All women are credible when making sexual assault allegations, unless they make those accusations against Joe Biden or Bill Clinton.

    - Only bigots want US immigration laws to be enforced as they are written. If you're against illegal immigration, then you are against all immigration.

    - Facts are racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, islamophobic, ageist, ablist, fatphobic, and classist.

    I could go on and on and on, but I have a paper to write about something much more intellectually stimulating and intellectually honest than CNN.
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2021
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  16. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Sorry, I have to call bullshit. This is a list of opinions or controversies that you have twisted out of shape. They are not lies told by the media.

    If you'd like, pick out the one or two that you think are the strongest examples and we can discuss in more detail.
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  17. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Seems to be a protest without a difference, the more accepted term is lean left. Fox leans right is solid right. Is there really any difference? As I mentioned MediaBiasFactCheck does as good a job as I think is possible trying to quantify this.
  18. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

  19. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    The U.S. grew so quickly after independence in part because it didn't have restrictions on immigration until the racist Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882.
  20. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Not exactly so:
    1790 Naturalization Act Excluded non-white people from eligibility to naturalize.
    The United States began regulating immigration soon after it won independence from Great Britain,
    and the have reflected the politics and migrant flows of the times.
    Early legislation tended to impose limits that favored Europeans, but a sweeping 1965 law opened doors to immigrants from other parts of the world.
    In more recent years laws since enacted, laws and presidential actions have been shaped by concerns about refugees, unauthorized immigration and terrorism.

    Naturalization requirements included two years of residence in the country and “good moral character,” and an applicant must be a “free white person.
    ” The Naturalization Act of 1795 extended the residency requirement to five years.
    In 1798, this was extended to 14 years, then back to five in 1802.
    In 1870, the right of citizenship was extended to those of African origin.
    Starting in 1875, a series of restrictions on immigration were enacted.
    They included bans on criminals, people with contagious diseases, polygamists, anarchists, beggars and importers of prostitutes.
    Other restrictions targeted the rising number of Asian immigrants, first limiting migration from China and later banning immigration from most Asian countries.

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