PhD in Management?

When I was looking into doctorates a couple years ago (I am now doing one at a B&M Canadian school) I contacted a number of UK universities about doing this. As far as I recall the schools were Southampton, Bristol, LSE, Swansea, Plymouth, Greenwich, UCL, Northumbria and Aberdeen. Southampton and Bristol rejected the idea of a foreign based doctoral student flat out, LSE never replied, Swansea said it may be possible but some residencies would definitely be required, never did define these, Plymouth said yes but minimum 4 months on campus per year, Greenwich I never really followed up with, UCL I believe said no, Northumbria said yes (but I had studied there previously). Aberdeen is funny because on their website they say it's possible but the person I discussed it with didn't seem aware of it. This is all related to the respective universities' law schools, other departments may be different, and also policies may have changed in the last couple years.

 

You need to find a doctoral program that requires a full dissertation. These "doctoral programs" that don't include the completion of a dissertation (such as a series of papers) are just money-making schemes in sense; the graduates are probably getting some good content but not earning a degree that will be accepted as a doctorate. If it isn't accepted as a doctorate for research and teaching in regionally-accredited higher education, then it isn't a doctorate.

(Again, I realize the marketers of these abbreviated "doctoral programs" hate for me to discourage people from pursuing their dreams like this because it means there are fewer ignorant lambs to sheer.)

 

Strictly speaking from a time and cost perspective, my goal is not to spend more than I have to in my pursuit of a PhD.

It seems that even though I can be admitted into a PhD program with my BS in Computer Sci, I would have to take additional courses (to compensate for not having an MA) as Ted has pointed out, thus I am not saving any money or time by skipping the MBA and going for a PhD program.

After some research I found this to be the case (i.e. No time or cost savings by skipping the MBA) for both US (taught PhD's) and UK (dissertation only) universities.

What are your thoughts on this?

 

Not many thoughts really - you need about 90 credits beyond a BS for a PhD. BS to PhD means 90 credits....MS to a PhD means about 60 credits. I would go for the MS first then you have something in the event you don't want to complete the PhD.

 

Exactly

 

Randell,

You are referring to an MS while the prospective student is anticipating earning an MBA. Is it clear to everyone that the MBA might be treated as a terminal degree as far as UK extended, "research only" PhDs are concerned?

Earning an MS with a research component maybe vital to advancing to the next level. If the MBA is completed from a UK source it will include at least a 20,000 word dissertation, if not more, that might work as far as getting this student into a research only PhD in the UK.

I haven't heard anything in this regard as it pertains to earning an MBA and then expecting "not" to be forced into completing an MS research prior to entering a PhD program.

 

You bring up a very valid point here. In my case I want to go for a PhD, and I want a Masters level degree to help me get there. I wonder IF an MBA in the US can be made to include research so it's not just a terminal degree. Or maybe I should go for an MS not an MBA ?

 

MPhil / MRes / MS vs. MBA

In the European PhD model, one must gain an MPhil/MRes before they can go for the dissertation-only PhD.

A US MBA may not be equivalent to an MPhil/MRes while an MS degree in business may.

This is my impression, is this correct?

 

Hi Ethanre,

I hold an MBA with a 30,000 word dissertation and a GPA of 3.8, not to mention it's a UK degree and I'm concerned about qualifying to enter directly into a research-based PhD. I'm not certain that I can be exempt from doing that darn MS!! To me, that would be a deal breaker as I'm too old to spend an extra year doing makeup studies (not to mention my wife won't be to thrilled either).

I want the shortest route to that PhD at this stage of my life. So far, UNISA is looking like the best bet for me, despite my heavily favoured attitude/desire towards another UK degree. I have two degrees from the UK, one from Canada and might consider doing one from the US, possibly NCU??

I'm still confused and hence, reading everything I can on this board! Good luck.

PS. I want to complete a doctoral level degree as the MBA is too general in nature and I feel I have a great deal more to accomplish in academia.

 

A lot of helpful information has been shared by others in this thread, make sure you read the previous replies.

Two very important things I took from this thread:
1- An MBA that is AACSB accredited was a must, if you want to go to a doctoral program.

2- If you want to be a tenured professor in a B&M university your PhD should be AACSB accredited as well.


Since, I was told that an MBA (terminal / professional degree) may not be enough for a PhD admission thus an MS may be better here.

Now, I am left with these questions:
Q1. Should the MS have to be AACSB accredited also?
Q2. We all kind of know what an MBA stands for. When I think MS in business things get gray. Should I go for an MS in Management, an MS in Marketing or what kind of MS?

It would be nice if an MBA existed that also includes research and thesis.
Maybe I should get an MBA and and MS in I/O psych? http://www.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?p=316425

morganplus8:

Have you applied to PhD programs?
Are you looking for external / DL ones or B&M?
Is your MBA ACCSB accredited?
If you haven't applied I would definitely go ahead and try. Sounds like you have done well in your MBA program.


Looking forward to more feedback
Ethan

 

Would a DBA or DPA be a doctorate acceptable for teaching?

 

Hi Ethan,

I just have a minute and wanted to relate a story to you, when I was about to complete my MBA, I began a search for a doctoral level program for the future. I resolved that I would sign up with UNISA as they offered a "thesis only" route for my next degree and the choices were adequate for me at the time.

Since then, I see that UNISA has reduced the number of departments that are willing to accept an MBA (with dissertation experince) as their qualification for entry into their doctoral programs. The only one that I can remember at this moment is their DBL which is not something I want. I did want to earn a DCom from their Economics Dept. but they are now looking for an MS Econ to qualify. And so it is with many of their other Dept's., you need to hold a Masters in that discipline. This isn't good news for those of us with MBAs and this is why I'm making my point today. Gotta go!!

 

MBA vs. PhD

Let me re-write my questions (sorry there are a few):

1 -- What is more affordable?
A) doing an MBA (DL US-Based) then going for a PhD (DL UK-Based) OR
B) going straight to a PhD (UK-Based) BUT having to complete the "research" hours needed for a MPhil or MRes first then move on to the PhD work.

2 -- If I want to attend an AACSB PhD program (US, UK or France DL) what would serve me better an (terminal) MBA or some MS degree?

3 -- I assume the MS should be AACSB accredited?

4 -- Do "Research-based" MBA's exist (that are DL, US-Based)?
If the answer is no then my only choice would be an MS or a UK-Based research MPhil or MRes since these are research-based thus better prep for a PhD

 

1a.
2. Not sure, I will let others answer this.
3. Yes
4. Not sure, I will defer.

Remember as well, you may not get accepted going straight to the PhD program, so this may not be an issue for you. it is competitive and you would have to make a strong case with no graduate work under your belt.

 

Han, thanks. I am trying to confirm if an MBA, that is AACSB, is sufficient enough to apply for a PhD program in the future (B&M or DL) or if I actually do need an MS degree (with research) since MBA's seem to be professional / terminal degrees not research degrees.

 

I only had a MBA. I wish I would have had a specialty with it, but the MBA was enough. I have not heard of the issue before, so I would think the MBA is enough, but maybe others have thoughts on this.

 

morganplus8 (from a few replies above) is concerned.

 

A1. It would be very helpful to have an AACSB master's if you want to get into an AACSB doctorate.

A2. Probably the MS in Marketing (assuming you want the PhD in Marketing).

 

1 -- Not sure, but A sounds like a good idea.

2 -- If you want to get into an AACSB PhD, some MS degree might serve you better. That said, Dr. Bear assures us that some (but not all) doctoral programs are willing to take the MBA as valid credential for doctoral admissions.

3 -- An AACSB master's would be a definite help getting into an AACSB doctorate.

4 -- Dr. Bear assures us that there are some research-based MBAs. But I'd have to go look at my copy of Bears' Guide to the Best MBAs by Distance Learning before giving a more definitive answer.

 

Hello all...

Ethanre sent me a PM asking for my "expertise" on this, so here goes.

MBA or MS?

For the record, I have an MBA which was earned in an evening program at an AACSB institution - and I am close to completing a PhD at Capella, which is a DL program. Capella is regionally accredited, but is not AACSB accredited. I knew that going in to the program, and to this date, I have no regrets about my choice of school for the doctorate. Capella had no issue with accepting the MBA.

The MBA was the better degree to teach at a community college, because I was simply exposed to more course work across more disciplines. Therefore from a teaching standpoint, (especially at a small college like mine), the MBA suited me well.

That being said, for the doctoral studies, I wish I would have been in an M.S. that required a thesis. The dissertation is a B***H, and had I had written a thesis in my masters program, my dissertation would have gone better.

I'm glad I completed an MBA - it has made me a better teacher, and knowing what I know now, I probably wouldn't have changed a thing.

So what should you do? Easy, check into where you are thinking about doctoral studies, and research their requirements. Good luck in the decision.

Shawn

PS - Now it's time to revise Chapter 4. I'll be resubmitting it tonight after final tweaks. I should be submitting the completed dissertation on December 1.