Oregon Limits Educational Choice

You keep trying to defend the degree mill entity known as Kennedy-Western University. This is a fact no matter how emphatically you deny it.

So now you're asserting that there should not be a standard for educational degrees!!??

Haven't you argued that governments shouldn't get involved in restricting substandard educational institutions. That accreditation should instead be done outside the governement. That the current RA system is bad because it defines educational standards that its members must meet if they want to remain accredited. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something but these arguments seem very self contradictory.

 

This is not what is happening. The ODA is just trying to protect the public. It is very similar to a state saying, if you want to use an airplane in our state then it needs to either be an "accredited plane" or an approved "unaccredited plane". Accredited plane means a plane built by a large company that has had the design approved by the FAA. Unaccredited plane means a plane built by the owner. Before an unaccredited plan can be used it requires an additional inspection by government officials to make sure that it won't endanger the public safety.

You see, it doesn't have anything to do with being guilty until proven innocent. It has to do with required additional approval to ensure public safety.

 

You see Russ, your very premise of this thread is a defense of the degree mill, KWU. If you would agree that KWU were a degree mill then your argument that the ODA shouldn't be allowed to protect Oregonians from a degree mill wouldn't make sense, would it?

Look at Rich's reasons that KWU is frequently called a degree. Here's more proof from the Senate hearings that was mentioned earlier.

http://www.osac.state.or.us/oda/diploma_mill.html#hearing

I also would like to note that the above delightful, informative, and helpful link was provide by the beloved ODA.

 

I don't know why you are saying that I am "spewing" lies when I am just citing the actual agreement between Oregon's ODA and KWU. Rather than impugn my integrity over and over, why don't you cite any lie that I have posted and I will respond.

As I said before, I really don't know if KWU is a diploma mill and I admit to not have done any extensive research. Still, looking at the results of the lawsuit between the ODA and KWU, it appears the Secretary of State for Oregon does not agree that KWU is providing a substandard education. The only thing the ODA got out of this is that any KWU graduate must mention the school is unaccredited which is truthful and reasonable.

 

It is already the case the federal government is not a regulator of education in the US (it is a state responsibility). I am arguing that the Oregon state government should not take the arbitrary position that only regional and nationally accredited schools can be used on resumes in Oregon. That may seem to be the easiest standard to adopt but it automatically assumes that all unaccredited universities are substandard. That is not right.

I am not saying the RA system is bad, I am saying that it should not be the only recognized accrediting body or bodies. Even CHEA agrees with that position by recognizing other accrediting bodies besides the RAs (although the regionals think less of them). I am also saying that accreditation is voluntary and you can still get a good education from an unaccredited school. All schools start out as unaccredited, does that mean all schools originally provide substandard education until they are accredited?

I also believe it should be a private agency, not each state government, that establishes a database of higher education in the US. Employers, including state governments, could pay this agency to provide data about each school. The agency may not even provide a quality rating (which is very subjective anyway) for the school but simply describe the process that a student goes through to get a degree there. If that process equals just sending a check, the agency would say so and the employer can make the determination if they want to hire someone whose degree comes in a cereal box.

There could be better ways to do this than creating accredited degree police forces in each state. Also, if you can't tell by now, I enjoy being the devil's advocate for some of the pompous people on this site that list their educational pedigree at the bottom of their posts.

 

Since I do this (currently), I'll respond.

What a losing argument. You can't possibly support your stances so you chose to attack people instead. This not only makes you wrong, it makes you petty.

Who are you and what have you done in this field? Why criticize someone else's accomplishments if you cannot even share your own?

As for signatures, many long-standing posters have changed them over the years. Of course, you wouldn't know that, would you?

People posting in other fora sometimes complain about their "treatment" here. But, invariably, it stems from behavior like the kind you display. No wonder people snap back at such childishness!

 

I'm glad you enjoy being so wrong so often.

 

Calm down, Rich. Take a deep breath. It was your smug responses to one of my posts that started this accusing me of "disproving" my own arguments. Just because I fired back doesn't mean I am childish or petty. I think the more appropriate adjective would be 'defensive.'

I did not criticize your accomplishments. You should be proud of them. Nothing I can say will take that away from you. As I said, my educational pedigree is not important and has nothing to do with the integrity (or lack of) in my posts.

Nevertheless, I would comment that making condescending remarks about someone's post may get you a post back that may not be exactly polite. Yes, I am the new kid on the block but I don't see how that affects the validity of my posts. By the way, how long does it take to become a "senior member." I might want to be here a long time.

Want to shake hands?

 

Yes, I enjoy being proven wrong. Too bad you never do it.

 

KWU spews lies that Mr. Contreras calls bizarre dribble. When you repeat this untruthful dribble then you too are spewing.

I'll copy a couple of posts here from the thread that I previously linked too since you apparently didn't notice these.
http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17105&perpage=30&pagenumber=3

Here's the agreed upon law change.

Here's the post by Mr. Contreras that specifically addresses the lie that you love to spew from the website that the degree mill entity known KWU maintains.

 

I'll pass. But I'll drop it for now, and will look forward to your next post.

 

Gee, I wonder why people would complain about their treatment by you Rich. I gave you an opportunity to make peace but you threw it back, "I'll pass."

I thought I could get some intelligent discussions here about this subject and some posters have been stimulating. Yours are always insulting and condescending. Maybe because as far as you are concerned, this is not a discussion of ideas, it is your way or the highway. You are always right and everyone else is always wrong.

That doesn't leave much room for discussion.

And I know, this is another self-defeating argument so you don't have to post that comment 20 more times in a row.

 

Oh, but I will. I routinely acknowledge mistakes. If you'd lead with your eyes instead of your mouth, you'd know that. But 31 posts haven't given you the time to gather that information.

Again, you make it personal. But that's only because I actually have an identity. Who are you? What role do you play in distance education?

You've offered a smattering of ideas, then whined when they were utterly deconstructed. So you move to attack the person, this "discussion" devolved accordingly, then you start crying like a little girl with a skinned knee. What do you expect?

I'll offer this: try backing up even a tiny iota of what you've said, then see the discussion perk up. Until then, you're limited to insults that fail to find their mark.

Formula:

1. Post degree mill garbage.
2. Watch it get blown apart and exposed for what it is.
3. Complain and insult other posters.
4. Go somewhere else and cry about how you were treated.

Well, remember, you're treated that way in response to your own behavior. Aren't you due in Jamesville any time now?

 

No, Rich, you make it personal over and over again. Is this the best you can do. No wonder I don't recognize any school on your pedigree. You are certainly not Ivy League material. How's that for personal? Now you can call me names again and we can do this forever, it's kind of like grade school all over again.

I don't get the Jamesville comment. Please explain.

 

An attack on Rich's impecable degree by an anonymous individual that refuses to state why he has such a huge hang-up against the ODA. Yes that is definitely Jamesville dribble.

 

BTW Russ, don't you think that you owe the ODA an apology for repeating KWU lies about their agreement?

 

If his degree is so impeccable why are his posts so petty? That's right, you guys are more interested in the degree than the quality of the education. I forgot.

By the way, thanks for keeping this going. I am trying to get to 100 posts so I can be a "senior member."

 

No Bill, I don't owe anyone an apology. Thanks for asking.

 

That's the beauty of this: I don't defend my education. You don't have one.

 

Interesting that he keeps promoting the K-W party line but refuses to mention his own qualifications.