Looming slaughter in Gaza

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by nosborne48, Oct 10, 2023.

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  1. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    And this is the very core of the problem: conflating Hamas with the Palestinians in Gaza.

    We are seeing a lot of conflict over who is criticizing whom, and it's because of this phenomenon.

    We must be able to criticize BOTH Hamas and Israel for their action, especially as they both harm the Palestinians.

    Criticism of Israel is not support for Hamas, just as criticism of Hamas is not support for Israel. It is not a binary choice.

    The Israeli government has tolerated Hamas for many years. Why? Because it's been convenient. The hard-liners get their (very real) bogeyman and then use it as a pretense to continue suppressing the Palestinians.

    I hope the IDF is successful. Why? Because they're going to do it no matter what, so I hope we see Hamas eradicated as a result. Either way, it's the Palestinians who will pay the price. Again.
     
  2. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

  3. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Unfortunately since Sherman's March to the Sea war against an enemy's military means war against the enemy population.
     
  4. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    People be it in North Korea or Gaza are hostages of the tyrans regime or organizations such as Hamas.
    We seen the suffering in Syria and Iraq that ISIS caused.
    Israel priority is that there are no civilians in the combat areas.
    So they're cooperating with other powers in allowing evacuation of civilians.

    My Christian friends see Gog and Magog and major world conflict escalating citing apocalyptic prophecies. Iran, West, Lebanon, Syria, Russia, N Korea Turkey all may be drown in to conflict over the HolybLand.
     
  5. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Alas, they aren't. There's nowhere for people to go.
     
  6. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Not the same thing.

    North Korea, like all Stalinist regimes, works very hard to keep people IN.

    Regarding Gaza, Egypt and Israel work very hard to keep Palestinians OUT. The result is the same: an imprisoned population. But the philosophies are different.
     
  7. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Israel used Iron Beam to intercept two rockets.

    https://t.me/beholdisraelchannel/19575

    I wonder what the effective range is ( objects that orbit ? ), and how a possible EMP attack can be repelled. Like at what distance? What is great is that it does not require “new reloaded” Patriot Missiles ) - perhaps a renewable resource? Can it be mounted on aircraft ? For example is this something that may be used in Hawaii to reduce N Korea or Russian threats ( not by Israel )? Can it be used air to surface ? This changes the “whole game”. We will find out.
     
  8. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Iron Beam?

    Jim Beam?
     
  9. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Iron Dome?

    A big EMP pulse would mean a nuclear detonation wouldn't it?
     
  10. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    There are other ways to generate an EMP, but that's one way, yes.
     
  11. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Iron Beam:
    Iron Beam, laser air defense system.
    Was planned to be deployed on Gaza Strip border in 2025 amd 2027 the rest of borders.
    The deployment/use was expedited and successfully used on 10/15.

    https://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/articles/2023/3/21/israeli-made-high-energy-laser-makes-debut

    This is supplemental, as with all the hightech the terrorists attacked with low tech motorcycles and trucks, so ll the hightech it's not replacement to protected scouts solders and watchers.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2023
  12. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Israel turned the water back on in Southern Gaza.

    At this point I really don't know what the IDF will do. They're preparing for a ground invasion but the cost will be very high. Also there is a time constraint. Israel cannot maintain an army of 300,000 forever. Their economy cannot bear that burden.

    And even if they do accept a war of attrition and win, what then?

    Finally what was Hamas' end game? To die as martyrs? What then?
     
  13. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    I speculate there are multiple level goals, one achived was to kidnap hostages we see their training videos, the (Iran) end game is to engage Israel in the South, "trap" in Gaza the army and inflict casualties, then other fronts will open, Lebanon, Israeli Arabs, West Bank Palistinians, and Syria.
    posible End game: attempt to destroy the state of Israel.

    I hope I'm wrong.
     
  14. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Also their goal was to hurt Israel's military image of invisiblity.
    Draw the type of reaction we are seeing to gain world support?
    Kill peace process, and Saudis negotiations of normalization of Diplomatic relationship with Israel.
     
  15. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    WOW! Joe Biden says that there's no clear evidence that Tehran is behind the Hamas attack!

    This matters a lot. Is Hamas really going it alone?
     
  16. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    If Tehran is not behind it, they'll get behind it.
     
  17. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    On the one hand, Iran benefits so directly from this that I find it easier to believe that Biden has some other geopolitical reason to say such a thing than that it is actually true.

    On the other hand, the world is full of things I personally do not and cannot know, and this is certainly one of them.
     
  18. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    I think Iran is in charge and deeply involved, in planning and preparations that took some 2 years. The preparations are for multi front attack.
    Yet the timing of the attack was not permanently set.
    The Rock festival preparations close to Gaza border was making noise, the building of stage, sound checking, tracks with equipment etc.
    It dew Hamas attention, scouts external and collaborators internally observed the situation and used the opportunity.
    Loud noise on their border etc, also they didn't attack at night, that would made escape easier, they waited till the morning after 6:00 AM (6:30) to attack.
    So its possible that Hamas choose the timing based on the situation and not consulted with Iran.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2023
  19. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Opinion:

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/iran-plan-destroy-israel-hiding-170902284.html

    I see a lot of protest for and against Israel.
    I don't recall seeing any protests when ISIS related operations and Syria war killed more then 2000 Palestinians in Syria.
    Is Arabs killing Arabs not that urgent only when Israel is defending it self then support for Palestinians arises.
     
  20. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Indeed, policymakers in Islamic-majority countries don't seem particularly motivated to do anything that would actually make Palestinians' lives easier.
     
    Rich Douglas likes this.

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