From Phillippines to Grand Turk and Caicos

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by Delta, Feb 13, 2014.

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  1. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Don't put words in my mouth...or post. I didn't say those things, you did.

    There is simply no way ACBSP accreditation is on par with AACSB. Don't be absurd.

    As far as degrees from this thing being comparable to degrees from institutionally accredited (regional or national) schools in the US, I think the jury is still out on that one. It certainly isn't conferred by ACBSP accreditation. I'd like to see a report from a foreign degree evaluator, at least. But even that would be case-by-case, so perhaps a bunch of them (including at the doctoral level) would help. Got any of those?
     
  2. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    No, they're not. They're second- or third-notch, and those notches are way below AACSB.

    That's false. You're ignoring the difference between programmatic accreditation and institutional accreditation.

    Well, that's a convenient dodge.

    Good luck with your degree.
     
  3. worldtraveler

    worldtraveler New Member

  4. mbwa shenzi

    mbwa shenzi Member

    Interesting.

    Nah, I already know. But let's not go there.
     
  5. heirophant

    heirophant Well-Known Member

    Your response doesn't have anything to do with what I wrote. I wrote that ACBSP accreditation applies only to programs in business administration and has nothing to do with the other programs that a school might offer, in various other subjects like theology, clinical psychology, nursing or public health.

    ACBSP says it themselves: "What is the difference between program vs. institutional accreditation? ACBSP accredits business programs. ACBSP does not accredit the institution, only the business programs offered at the institution. Most businesses and universities reviewing transcripts and accepting degrees base their decisions on institutional accreditation. Program accreditation from ACBSP without institutional accreditation may not be considered sufficient when accepting degrees or credits for transfer."

    https://www.acbsp.org/page/about-faq

    ACBSP goes on to say: "For institutions located within the United States, regional accreditation of the institution is required for membership and accreditation eligibility. Not all countries have the equivalent of regional accreditation and the government may provide the authority to grant degrees. When considering business programs, students are encouraged to contact institutions they may wish to attend in the future as well as the human resource department of specific employers. Degree acceptance policies will vary by institution and employer."

    ACBSP seems to me to be confusing accreditation and legal authorization to award degrees. Those are two separate things. Accreditation is academic quality assurance, while legal permission to award degrees means that a school's proprietor won't get in local legal trouble for doing so. Here in the United States, it's the difference between accreditation and state approval. That bit of confusion troubles me, since one would expect an accreditor to be sensitive to those kind of distinctions.

    ACBSP also seems to be ignoring the fact that while local RA-equivalent accreditation might not be available everywhere on the planet, American regional accreditation seemingly is. All of the American regional accreditors can and do accredit schools outside the United States. WASC accredits schools in places like Mexico, Peru, Kenya, Armenia, the Czech Republic and India. I have no doubt that they would consider a school in the Turks and Caicos too, provided that the school met WASC accreditation requirements.

    I'm also concerned when an institution is said to be operated from the United States, but claims an offshore address, with ACBSP accepting the school doing that and allowing them to therefore dodge the domestic RA requirement. That doesn't reflect very well on ACBSP either.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2019
  6. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    I'm not convinced that this whole ACBSP development actually signifies anything important re Charisma.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    This post reveals a remarkable ignorance of programmatic accreditation, Union Institute and University’s operating model and programs, the history of non traditional higher education, and my own educational background (since you brought it up).

    The direct answer to your question is “one.” But you knew that.

    Still looking forward to some proof that a degree from a school in that territory is accepted as equivalent to one from a regionally or nationally accredited school in the US, as you’ve asserted. Let us know when you come across that, hmmmm?
     
  8. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    Back in 2014, when this thread started, you stated that you were still undecided about where you would go to complete your Bachelors degree (post #24 in this thread). Now you are saying that you'd like to complete your MBA at Charisma. I assume therefore that in the interim you completed that Bachelors degree. Which school did you decide on? From which school do you have your Bachelors?
     
  9. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I think I spoke too soon. The answer, I think, is "zero."
     
  10. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Achieving ACBSP accreditation of business degrees is an achievement. This will serve the graduates of business programs.
    Another valid comment was made is that only business programs/degrees are accredited by ACBSP.

    For example, NARIC UK degree equivalency evaluation:
    NARIC states that there are many forms of accreditation in the US but they deem RA to be the equivalent to UK degrees. They will not evaluate degrees from the US that are not RA.
    How they evaluate education form Turks and Caicos I don't know.

    I'm curious if this will increase the expansion of other schools from the US to the Turks and Caicos?

    https://www.acbsp.org/members/?id=25667434

    Institution Classification: Private
    Accreditation Status: Yes
    Accreditation Category: A2 - Conditionally Accredited
    Year Initially Accredited (Bacc./Grad.): 2019
    Term of Accreditation: 4 Years
     
  11. Steve Levicoff

    Steve Levicoff Well-Known Member

    I concur. Union's issue at the time was with Ohio Board of Regents (OBR), not with the North Central/CHE regional accreditation.

    I don't feel the need to tap dance on behalf of Union - the mere notion that they are regionally accredited is good enough for me, especially since Charisma is not RA and, IMO, is unlikely to ever be RA.

    Nonetheless, if I were to accuse any entity of being a sleazy whore in this affair, it wouldn't be Charisma - it would be ACBSP (which, by the way, is approved by CHEA but not US-DoEd). On the other hand, since I'm a liberal arts guy to the core, that is the extent of my opinion (and it is merely that - an opinion, and that way I don't have to be bothered arguing with any DI idiots) since I don't give a crap about business programs.

    Besides, as you all know, I have an RA non-profit Ph.D., and the rest of you don't. Except for Rich and his two doctorates, even though he has evaded answering the question posed to him twice in this thread, namely whether he ever collected the judgment he was awarded in his case. :D
     
  12. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Not "evaded." Ignored. It's OT. PM me if you want the story. (Spoiler alert: it's boring.)

    I agree completely with your points about Union, Charisma, and ACBSP.
     
  13. worldtraveler

    worldtraveler New Member

    My application to Charisma University’s MBA program is complete. I have been accepted and will be getting started very soon. I am looking forward to working on my ACBSP accredited MBA degree. Wish me luck.
     
  14. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    I would be curious to know . . . with hundreds of online MBA programs to choose from, how/why did you decide that Charisma was the best choice?
     
  15. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Did you at least determine whether or not anyone has had an MBA from that school evaluated by a foreign credential evaluation agency? That would seem to be a very prudent step before enrolling in a school not recognized by its sovereign government. I'm not saying it wouldn't be evaluated as equivalent to an MBA from an American accredited school, but it might be a good idea to check ahead of time.
     
  16. worldtraveler

    worldtraveler New Member

    Kismet and Dr. Rich,

    I decided to enroll in Charisma University because it is a newly accredited university, and I believed that ACBSP has done their due diligence. And the tuition seems very reasonable as well as the staff have been fantastic! Now I will ask, if it is accredited by an accrediting body recognized by CHEA, why would their business degrees need a credential evaluation? Dr. Rich, why are you trying to discourage people from enrolling in Charisma University? It might not be for you, but not everyone thinks exactly alike. The important deciding factor was that Dr. Peterchris Okpala seems to be very interested in helping his students. I am a good judge of character. I want to see Charisma succeed. But thanks for asking. I will stop back from time to time to let you know how my coursework is going. Good bye ladies and gentlemen.
     
  17. Michigan68

    Michigan68 Member

    Avtually they are not discouraging anyone, Kizmet and Rich and many others at DI ask the person if they spoke with an evaluator concerning the degree and school the person is contemplating, whether the prospective school is from Europe, Caribbean, Africa.

    When comparing a foreign (non-US) school to US education criteria, a person should always talk to an evaluator like WES . . . .etc

    You should be thankful that they care.
     
  18. worldtraveler

    worldtraveler New Member

    Thank you for input Michigan68. But I believe that ACBSP has thoroughly evaluated Charisma University’s business programs and found them to meet the highest standards. That is all I need to base my decision. Thank Dr. Rich and Kizmet for me.
     
  19. mbwa shenzi

    mbwa shenzi Member

    I'm curious to know what conditionally accredited means. By the way, judging from the list of individual members (see link posted by Lerner, left margin), George Gonzalez and Yanni Zack are still around. And Robert Hill, would that be Robert Ray Hill?
     
  20. worldtraveler

    worldtraveler New Member

    Good guess Mbwa Shenzi but try again. And does it really matter who I am. The important thing is that Charisma University’s business programs are ACBSP accredited, whether they are conditionally accredited. The important thing is that they have met the standard of all ACBSP accredited business schools.

    https://www.acbsp.org/page/accreditation
     

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