From Phillippines to Grand Turk and Caicos

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by Delta, Feb 13, 2014.

  1. worldtraveler

    worldtraveler New Member

    I hear that Charisma University has posted on their Facebook page that they are going to give a four year scholarship to one lucky person, who likes their FB page, posts one positive comment about the university, and agrees not to take it down until after the drawing on August 1, 2014.
  2. Delta

    Delta Active Member

    Thanks for the research!
  3. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Really? On what basis?

    Candidacy is granted without a bit of evaluation by ACBSP. All it requires for international schools is that they pay a membership fee, send a letter requesting candidacy, and stipulate that they have degree-granting authority from their home nation and have been conducting business programs for 2 years. That's it. What it doesn't yet mean is way bigger:

    -- No evidence supporting the above stipulations
    -- No evidence of the quality or content of their degree programs, nor their administrative processes, faculty, or financial situation
    -- No self-study or other forms of evaluation or evidence

    Not a single thing about Charisma has been proven yet. Applying to ACBSP doesn't change that. ACBSP hasn't passed judgment on anything yet, including whether or not this thing has the right to grant degrees.

    I'm not saying this thing won't pass muster with ACBSP. I'm saying it hasn't. Not yet. Not one little bit. You could open up a diploma mill today and send in the request tomorrow and become a candidate for ACBSP accreditation by next week. Then--and ACBSP makes this perfectly clear on their website--the journey (and the proof) begins.

    A note on candidacy: Normally, being a "candidate for accreditation" means the accrediting body has received a self-study from the applicant school, done a site visit, examined other evidence of the school's fitness for accreditation, and then awards candidacy so it can observe the school in a kind of probationary status for awhile. The process is so rigorous that many other schools, agencies, and employers will accept degrees from candidate schools.

    ACBSP does none of this before awarding its "candidacy." Frankly, it is much more like DETC, which has no candidacy process. And as we all know, being a DETC applicant doesn't mean anything. Same here.

    Regarding ACE, all we know is someone there accepted Charisma's membership. We don't know what process ACE used (or didn't use) to make its eligibility determination. What "national authority" were they referring to? Has anyone seen Charisma be including in any listing of universities under a country's "national authority"?

    I'd much rather see:

    -- Something independent of Charisma that says Turks and Caicos is a sovereign nation (it's not--it's a British Overseas Territory ruled by the UK)
    -- That Turks and Caicos has a system of higher education (it doesn't--it has a community college that appears to be merely a vocational school; it doesn't have any universities)
    -- That Charisma University is listed with other British universities (it's not--it isn't recognized by its own government, the UK)
    -- That regionally accredited schools will accept degrees issued by Charisma as being comparable to degrees from regionally accredited schools (anyone?)
    -- That graduates from Charisma have had their degrees evaluated by a NACES-recognized agency as being equivalent to degrees awarded at the same levels by U.S. schools (anyone?)

    Sorry, but getting "candidacy" status from a professional accreditor through a completely non-evaluative process available to anyone who sends in a check and a letter attesting to a couple of things proves absolutely nothing. Is Charisma legitimate? Will ACBSP accredit them? I guess well see. But we haven't yet, despite the statements we've seen on this board.

    Finally, being recognized by that tiny territory and being legitimate could be mutually exclusive concepts.
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 18, 2014
  4. surprises

    surprises New Member

    Charisma University received validation of its Legitimacy NOT only from ACE but also from ACBSP, a well respected and recognized accrediting body for business programs! Thanks Steve for posting the ACE personal e-mail to you about Charisma University, thanks also to Worldtraveler for posting the Charisma University ACBSP candidate for accreditation.

    Everyone knows what it takes to become both ACE and ACBSP member or should I remind you again Mr. ERIC and Dr. Rich?

    Eric and Dr. Rich are diverting this discussion to something else. Remember what you were promoting was that Charisma is unrecognized and diploma mill, or did you forget? Who proved you wrong are Charisma University, surprises, worldtraveler, JasmineH, ACE, ACBSP and your fellow degreediscussion forum members.

    Yes ACBSP candidate for accreditation is not the full accreditation and I don't see anywhere Charisma is claiming such. The fact is that you cannot gain ACBSP membership without being equivalent to US Regionally accredited institutions! Please lets keep focus of that as this has been why we have over 215 posts on this particular topic about Charisma University.

    Whether or not Charisma University achieves the full ACBSP accreditation is not my concern; the fact is that Charisma University, through its recent recognitions, is proven to be a recognized University equivalent to US regionally accredited university.

    I forgot to mention one important thing here: BIG CONGRATULATIONS TO CHARISMA UNIVERSITY FOR WINNING THIS FIGHT!
    It says "he who laughs last, laughs best".

    If you cannot beat them, join them. What are Eric and Dr. Rich waiting for ?

    I thank our Heavenly Father for bringing the truth in this case, and can tell that God is truly with Charisma University. I like Charisma University even more than before.

    This will be a great Easter celebration, and UNLESS you don't believe that this forum has ended in favor of Charisma University, you are like Judas and we His apostles. It is not too late to be His apostles.

    Cheers! let me take my hot chocolate drink and reflect on the passion of our Lord Jesus Christ.
  5. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly

    I've never heard of ACBSP listing a fraudulent school even as just a candidate. Nor have I heard of ACE accepting one as a member, and when I asked them directly about this I thought their response was very clear.

    As for Rich's comments about TCI, as I said before, their educational system is not run from London, they have autonomy in this area. That's why they have a Higher Education Advisory Board in the first place, if this were London's prerogative they wouldn't need one. (This is also true for other UK OSTs in the area like Montserrat, the Caymans, and Anguilla, all of which have local or regional oversight, not UK oversight, and all of which have medical schools whose graduates are accepted in the U.S.) Now, I understand your point that "being recognized by that tiny territory and being legitimate could be mutually exclusive concepts", I'll be the first to agree that things in the region are not always very efficient, but absent actual evidence that both their Ministry of Education and their Higher Education Advisory Board are incompetent or corrupt, it seems more fair not to assume that's the case.
  6. surprises

    surprises New Member

    Well said SteveFoerster! Thanks for this clarification. Case closed:banana:
  7. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    The "case" most certainly is not closed. It's just beginning. We'll see how this thing does with establishing itself as a university granting legitimate and recognized degrees.
  8. Randall Quick

    Randall Quick New Member

    Here's what I've been able to find with regard to the accreditation of institutions in the Turks and Caicos Islands:

    The Ministry of Education, Youth, Sports and Culture is responsible for providing degree granting authority to public higher education institutions within the Turks and Caicos Islands... There is no accrediting body that provides quality assurance of private higher educational institutions. ECE Education in the Commonwealth Caribbean (2010)

    As far as I can tell the only authorized public degree granting institutions on Turks and Caicos Islands are the TCI Community College and the University of the West Indies (Open Campus).

    The only place providing evidence that Charisma University is accredited (or do they mean authorized to operate, which is absolutely not the same thing as accreditation) is the CU site itself. The link that worldtraveler provided does not list CU anywhere, therefore this is not sufficient evidence of the equivalent of regional accreditation in the U.S. Membership in the ACBSP or ACE is also not sufficient evidence of the equivalent of regional accreditation.

    I would avoid this institution until the MOEYCS itself provides evidence that they consider this to be a public institution of good standing. I would also be interested to find out how they were able to provide quality assurance for the programs offered (such as the online PhD in Psychology).
  9. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Hey applicants pay money, what ACBSP has to loose by listing some one its not like they awarded any special rights by making some one a candidate.
    Nice membership fees and applications fees.

    Once the applicant passed all the requirements and proved their case, they will be awarded Accreditation. If they failed then the applicant will have to improve and reapply. Additional fees to pay. ACBSP is doing business in many countries, Mongolia and other. Its in business of QA and its in Business of Business :)
  10. Koolcypher

    Koolcypher Member

    Right...and the tooth fairy is real too:eek:mfg:I heard the Easter Bunny went here, seems legit:smokin: you know the saying if it looks like a :borladuck:walks like a :borladuck:then it is a :borladuck:
  11. Koolcypher

    Koolcypher Member

    Amateurs! They are late to the party. I was given a full ride at Johns Hopkins for following them on Twitter. Go figure:smokin:
  12. tadj

    tadj Active Member

    Last edited: Dec 27, 2019
  13. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    The owner of this thing sued me. He operates it from California and sued me there. Not only did I win a dismissal of his suit, I won a judgment against him.

    As for ACBSP, it looks like accreditation only extends to one associate’s, seven bachelor’s, and two master’s degrees. Zero doctoral degrees are listed as within the scope of accreditation. (The page notes that Charisma offers the doctorate, but it isn’t listed as part of their accreditation.

    This says more about the rigor of ACBSP than anything else.....not.

    If someone would produce a foreign degree evaluation attesting to these degrees being equivalent to ones from regionally accredited schools, that would be nice.
  14. Steve Levicoff

    Steve Levicoff Well-Known Member

    I had a feeling this news would bring warm and fuzzy memories back to you. :rolleyes:

    By the way, did you ever collect anything on the judgment?
    If we’re talking about the ACBSP page that Tadj cited above, why do you conclude this? The page lists 21 degrees through the doctoral level, and all of them show the same status – I see no indication that some are accredited by them and some are not.
  15. heirophant

    heirophant Well-Known Member

    Did he ever pay you?

    Exactly. One wonders whether ACBSP ever conducted a site visit (and where). Or do they forego site visits for DL schools and depend entirely on written submissions?

    I'm also concerned about the fact that ACBSP requires American schools to be regionally accredited, while foreign schools need only be awarding degrees legally. The implicit premise is that foreign standards for awarding degrees are always at RA standard, which is clearly false.

    Admittedly, that's all that schools in some places can show, since nothing better exists where they are, and ASBCP doesn't want to exclude these less favored applicants. But my point is that ACBSP doesn't equate to regional accreditation in those cases either.

    In the case of Charisma, ACBSP doesn't seem to even be relevant to most of its programs, which aren't business programs. ACBSP is clear that it isn't an institutional accreditor and only accredits programs in business administration. Yet Charisma purports to offer programs in many different subjects, ranging from doctoral programs in theology, through health science, to psychology.

    Pretending that ACBSP business accreditation (such as it is, which isn't much in my opinion) makes all the rest of the programs RA-equivalent is complete and utter bullshit in my opinion.
  16. worldtraveler

    worldtraveler New Member

  17. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    My mistake. The list had two pages and I didn't see the button to move to the second page. I stand corrected.
  18. worldtraveler

    worldtraveler New Member

    Thank you Rich Douglas for setting the record straight. This should put all degrees on par with those earned from other accredited institutions whether they are accredited Nationally, Regionally or Professionally (AACSB, ACBSP or IACBE).
  19. mbwa shenzi

    mbwa shenzi Active Member

    Speaking of Charisma University and accreditation, what happened with Charisma's accreditation from the British Accreditation Council?
  20. worldtraveler

    worldtraveler New Member

    Response to mbwa shenza - Not exactly sure, but then again ACBSP is top notch, so they really don't need it. Write the university if you want to know. ACBSP was all I needed to make up my mind. I have signed up to complete my MBA.

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