From Phillippines to Grand Turk and Caicos

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by Delta, Feb 13, 2014.

  1. worldtraveler

    worldtraveler New Member

    It is funny that Steve said he called the TCI Ministry of Education, and no one ever heard of Charisma University? My friend, please tell us the person you spoke to and when. Just to advise, when next you call the TCI Ministry of Education, please speak with the Honorable Minister herself, or the Permanent Secretary or the Secretary. I can tell you that Charisma University operates with the approval license issued by the TCI ministry of Education. You can also ask ASIC because ASIC has the copy of their approval license to operate in TCI. I also asked the same question why haven't ASIC updated Charisma listing on their website to reflect their new location in TCI, ASIC responded that they are in the process to do that any time this month.

    Delta, let me point out one thing that is very clear here. In TCI, no person is allowed to establish an institution without the am approval license issued directly from the TCI ministry of education! Please Google the "Turks and Caicos Islands Universities and Colleges Ordinance Act" and read through. You can also confirm this act with the Ministry when next you call them. In order for a person to obtain a business license to operate a school, it is a requirement that such a person must provide evidence that his/her institution has been issued the approval license to operate from the Ministry of Education.

    I told you I am considering Charisma University after my AA degree and this is because I have done my own investigation about Charisma University and its approval license from TCI ministry of education. Don't think I am a fool to throw my money in a diploma mill school as I don't even enough money to take care of my family.

    Charisma University is a legitimate university in TCI, and has been issued the approval license to operate by the TCI ministry of education.

    Another thing here is, TCI has a strong policy when it comes to higher education! Their quality assurance in education is very strong unlike some other Caribbean countries where one can easily jump in and open an institution.
  2. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Worldtraveler says Charisma has a business license to operate a school. Probably so. That is not recognition of its degrees. Various jurisdictions will issue such a license, or permission for a private, non-mainstream university. In many places, from Swiss Cantons to Panama, it's often permission to issue meaningless degrees of no standing whatsoever - completely within the law, no fine or jail time. The school fills out forms, pays money and gets what's basically a business license, with no academic oversight of any kind.

    And do we need to dwell on the fact yet again that even ASIC itself states its accreditation does not convey degree-granting authority of any kind. Also - not important that their web-listing doesn't reflect the change from the Philippines to TCI. I'm sure ASIC knows and will update its list, when the admin. people there get around to it.

    I think Worldtraveler, whether or not he is working on a degree, as he claims, must be associated with the operation of Charisma. Say anything about the school on a forum and up comes a post from him! ...followed by one from me. :smile:


    P.S. I guess I'm still a bit upset at the hollow threats of Charisma's fearsome "Samuel Gonzalez." No legitimate school would engage in or countenance such blatherskite for a second.
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 8, 2014
  3. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Also - I'd be remiss in not mentioning the Directors of Charisma U. hold some blatantly um... unrecognized "degrees." You can judge for yourself on the website. Some real funny-hat-and-curtain-rod devotees among them, it seems.

    Oddly, no such shenanigans whatsoever at the faculty level. I did see one USAT (Montserrat) degree, but the holder had an exemplary prior record, including a Doctorate from Drexel, so I'll let that slide. If anyone is talking to people at Charisma, let them know I read their stuff carefully.

    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 8, 2014
  4. worldtraveler

    worldtraveler New Member

    Hello Johann. I have still not made my final decision where I will be attending to complete my undergraduate degree. But I would like to ask you a question.

    Sir, would you kindly call the Minister of Education in the Turks and Caicos, the Honorable Akierra Mary Deanne Missick, LLB (Honours), TEP, who signed a letter to Charisma University dated February 21, 2014, issuing a provisional license to operate, upon the recommendation of the Higher Education Board. Her number is (649) 946-2801, Extension 40609. You can also fax your questions to (649) 946-2722.

    Hon. Akierra Missick | The Goverment of the Turks & Caicos Islands

    The listing of schools for the Turks and Caicos would not have listed the university, if Ministry of Education's approval would not have been granted.

    Turks and Caicos Islands Schools - Public schools, private schools, student programmes

    I am an honest man and definitely not a shill. And if calling or faxing a letter will set the record straight, then in the interest of justice, please do so. I am sure all of the forum members would appreciate it. With the greatest amount of respect, we can dance around this issue for the next year, however it will serve no purpose. Let the truth come out. Thank you Sir.

    By the way, what do you think about Excelsior College in New York? They seem to have a long history. Thanks much.
  5. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Sow's ear ≠ silk purse.

  6. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly

    TCI has IBCs. If that's all Charisma is there, then from an academic standpoint they may be operating legally, but their qualifications are completely unrecognized, just like those from a school in the U.S. operating under a religious exemption from state licensure.

    ZOMFG, Johann, this doesn't matter. Accreditation never conveys degree-granting authority because that's not its purpose! Accreditation only validates academic legitimacy. They're not the same thing!

    But I would walk five thousand miles
    And I would walk five thousand more
    Just to be the school who walked ten thousand miles
    To fall down on your shore....

    He's been silent since I said no one at the TCI Ministry of Education had ever heard of them.
  7. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Yes, Steve. You know that and, believe it or not, so do I. I should, as you've reminded me before.

    I say it this way for one reason only - because ASIC says it pretty much the same way. More than one ASIC-accredited school is in the habit of pretending that its ASIC accreditation DOES sanctify, launder and legitimize the school in some magic, alchemical and academic rite, so that its degrees are henceforward legit and recognized.

    I just repeat basically what ASIC itself says on the subject, so people get the idea that even ASIC admits that its seal of approval doesn't add any starch to the school's degrees, contrary to what the school insinuates - and they have no stiffening from any other source.

    Maybe that's the way I should have expressed it before. I'll be more careful in the future.

    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 9, 2014
  8. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    BTW, Steve - I understood the rest of the acronym instantly -- but what does the "Z" stand for? Never seen it before.
    Oh, never mind. I had to look it up - it's just "Z" instead of shift key....

  9. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    This has nothing to do with IUGS or Charisma, but I pulled this juicy little post re St. Kitts from AED archives ( ca. 2000) while researching a completely different topic:

    "Wow. These folks get around, don't they?

    Which leads me to wonder: Are there actually special travel packages for
    degree mill Presidents who wish to spend a week or two per year at St.

    :smile: :smile: Yeah! The Expedia folks should get on that one, right away!

    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 9, 2014
  10. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    deleted J.
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 9, 2014
  11. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    ON DD, I gave WT the info he requested on Excelsior - a good path to a well-recognized degree for the self-motivated student, well-organized and capable of working independently. Can be comparatively inexpensive, too, if done right.

    Just to clarify, my "Sow's ear ≠ silk purse" post does not, of course, refer to Excelsior. WT is busy posting pictures of a noose and an electric chair on DD. ...Now, I wonder just who he has in mind? :smile:

    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 9, 2014
  12. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly

    They should have, but interestingly, now it seems it's too late. I was recently speaking with a Caribbean educator who would know, and this person told me that St. Kitts has come a long way, for example that they no longer indefinite accreditation. It's also interesting to note that they no longer accredit IUGS.
  13. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Glad to know this, Steve. It speaks well for St. Kitts.

  14. nyvrem

    nyvrem Active Member

    1. Person with 'business' English comes in to proclaim a school that he/she has found and is going to study/studying at. It's amazing and real !
    2. degreeinfo's police squad starts shooting at the poster
    3. Poster tries 1 more time to convince people how true the new school is.
    4. Drops a nuclear bomb on poster.
    5. Thread dies.

    Almost every thread happens this way >.>

    Just saying :x
  15. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly

    Hey, when it comes to list item 2, I asked questions. And anyway, this particular issues isn't quite at 5 yet, or even 4, since worldtraveler did give the contact information I asked for and I'll get around to following up on it, probably next week.
  16. worldtraveler

    worldtraveler New Member

    I wanted to provide some information that I found out when researching the recognition for Charisma University. It is in black and white, for everyone to see. Thanks again Johann for pointing me into the direction of Excelsior.

    The Turks and Caicos has quality assurance requirements, that must be met in order to be recognized by the Ministry of Education and the Higher Education Board. I have attached Chapter 102, Universities and Colleges Ordinance, that will show all of the requires for becoming Ministry of Education (MOE) recognized in the TUrks and Caicos.

    And the application for membership with the American Council on Education (ACE) says that international universities must be recognized by "appropriate national authority and based outside of the United States and it's territories".

    Please see page two of the attached application form for ACE Membership. This means that ACE recognizes that Charisma University is recognized by the Ministry of Education (MOE) and the Government of the Turks and Caicos.
  17. Delta

    Delta Active Member

    It certainly appears to be a bona fide school! Any thoughts?
  18. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly

    Well, I called the number WT gave me for Akierra Missick, was told that the extension wasn't in use any more, was given a different number, called that, and got someone's voicemail other than Ms. Missick's. I expect that's a voicemail oubliette and that I'll receive no response, but that's beyond anyone's control. WT also provided a fax number, so I'll try that instead, although it means I'll have to find a fax machine that can call internationally, which is non-trivial.

    WT, if you happen to have an email address for the Minister, or for the Permanent Secretary, Cheryl-Ann Jones, that would be enormously helpful.
  19. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly

    Sending the fax turned out to be easier than I expected. I sent it to the attention of the Minister of Education and P.S. for Education. I look forward to seeing their response.
  20. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly

    I haven't gotten a response from anyone in Turks and Caicos, but since then I've heard back positively from ACE that Charisma University is recognized by an appropriate national authority and based outside of the United States and its territories, and it turns out that Charisma is also a candidate for accreditation by ACBSP, which means they too are satisfied that Charisma University is legitimate and recognized in Turks and Caicos.

    Game, set, and match: Charisma wins.

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