From Phillippines to Grand Turk and Caicos

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by Delta, Feb 13, 2014.

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  1. Delta

    Delta Active Member

  2. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    A while ago, in another forum, Charisma was claiming "verbal approval" from CHED, the official accreditor in the Philippines. I guess that didn't work too well for them. They also have ASIC accreditation. Charisma also featured Dr. Orien Tulp, as a nominee director. Dr. Tulp is the founder of USAT - University of Science, Arts and Technology, on Montserrat. USAT has accreditation from ASIC and AAHEA and has been discussed at length for years in other threads.

    I note Dr. Tulp's info has been removed from the Charisma site, since the move to Turks and Caicos.

    Same game -- different place. Here's a quote from a PM I received on another forum, when someone at Charisma didn't like what I said about the validity of the school's degrees and about its accreditation:

    "You may assume that we are joking by informing you of the coming libel lawsuit against you and others that have participated in this forum against Charisma University. Perhaps you have not been sued so you don't really understand that painful process in facing a libel lawsuit. This is not a threat but a reality!"
    Whoop! :firedevil: Threats don't make their degrees any more valid...!

    Johann
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 14, 2014
  3. Delta

    Delta Active Member

    What about approval by the Ministry of Education Grand Turks and Caicos and an impressive faculty? I have to admit their degree offerings look rigorous and intriguing!
     
  4. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly

    Do they really have such approval? Call the Turks and Caicos Ministry of Education, Youth, Sports and Culture at 1-649-946-2801 to find out for sure.
     
  5. Delta

    Delta Active Member

    Drive on the left side

    If you look at the campus photograph you will notice one of the parked cars is facing the opposite direction. This of course, proves that there is at least one "dumb American" at this location!:naughty:

    Contact | Charisma University
     
  6. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    if you examine the impressive degrees of the Directors et al., you will find some real clinkers - completely unaccredited ones.

    I prayed as set out below, that I would be led to the truth about this school:

    "Oh, Saint Levicoff, please descend from thy Rig on High, so that we might witness the wrath of thy heavenly Flame-Thrower!"

    Dr. Steve heard my plea. Here is part of his reply on the "other" forum, concerning Charisma, at that time in the Philippines.

    "Congratulations, Johann! You have, after all these years, become one of the select few that has received a lawsuit threat for calling a mill a mill.
    And Charisma is, indeed, a mill. A sleazy, scuzzy, slimy sham of a so-called school. (I love alliteration.)
    As for Samuel, he's obviously a fraud, a joke, a con artist, a rip-off, and an overall putz. (He can look that one up for himself.)
    So let him rant, let him rave, let him give you a little song, a little dance, a little seltzer down his pants.
    Oh, did I mention that Charisma is a degree mill?


    Methinks in this case thou art too easily impressed, O Delta! :smile:

    Johann

    BTW - so what if Turks and Caicos has given them some permission to operate a school? Quite a few controversial (or worse) schools have legal permission to operate in Panama and many other jurisdictions, but their degrees do not have meainstream - no, make that any - standing - e.g. Breyer State.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 14, 2014
  7. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    And it also might be good for you to know, Delta, that there is a connection between Charisma and an arrant, thorough-going degree mill called Victorville University. I discovered a Victorville-based page which someone had forgotten to remove from the Charisma site.

    When I mentioned it in the forum, someone at Charisma had it quickly removed and then hotly denied its existence. Rest assured, I do my homework on this stuff!

    Johann
     
  8. Delta

    Delta Active Member


    Not really! I just think it is funny to see you get riled up!

    Disclaimer: I am not "flaming" but if DI wants to suspend me for a month or two go ahead!
     
  9. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Yeah, I guess it is, to some. And it's soooo easy, isn't it? :smile:
    I don't think it's a suspense-worthy - or even any type of offence. None taken, that's for sure. Then again, I'm not a mod.... :jester:

    Johann
     
  10. worldtraveler

    worldtraveler New Member

    I wanted to thank the owners and administrators of DegreeInfo for starting such an informative website. I have learned so much regarding diploma mills. I want to thank Delta for starting this thread. I was considering Thomas Edison State College in New Jersey, that was until I saw that they charge $8,395.00 under their Comprehensive Tuition Plan for 36 credit hours. TESC is a very good school, but it will cost me nearly $20,000.00 after I finish my Associates degree, and that is if TESC allows me full credit for my prior studies.

    http://www.tesc.edu/tuition/Comprehensi ... n-Plan.cfm

    I spoke with a credential evaluator yesterday, and they said that they recognize Charisma University, as equivalent to a regionally accredited degree, based on their recognition from the Turks and Caicos, and I estimate it will cost me around $5,000.00 to complete my Bachelor's degree. I have a family with six children, so I must cut corners anyway that I can. Since they are recognized by the government there, my employer told me that they will help me pay to complete my degree at Charisma, so no student loans to weigh me down. Did you know that federal student loan debt in the United States has exceeded one trillion dollars. Lord knows I don't want to add to that figure. I feel sorry for those people having to pay back $800 or more per month for ten years or more.

    Fellow forum members, please let me know if you have any other suggestions. I highly value the opinions of the members here.
     
  11. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly

    Weirdly, I finally got around to calling the Ministry of Education in Turks and Caicos yesterday, and no one I spoke with there had ever heard of it. Perhaps I spoke with the wrong person. What is the source of your information on this?
     
  12. Delta

    Delta Active Member

    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 5, 2014
  13. RAM PhD

    RAM PhD Member

    Do each of the faculty members listed on the website actually know they are listed as faculty?
     
  14. Delta

    Delta Active Member

    I followed the link and Charisma University is indeed listed on a Turks and Caicos website:

    Turks and Caicos Islands Colleges

    Turks and Caicos Islands Schools - Public schools, private schools, student programmes
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 6, 2014
  15. Delta

    Delta Active Member

  16. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly

    That's unconvincing, to put it mildly. That's a phone book, not an authoritative list. If it were a real list it would include the local branches of UWI and UCC. I mean, if you told the local yellow pages to list your number under Universities and they did so, that would hardly mean you have meaningful academic recognition -- doubly so when you call the Ministry of Education and ask about Charisma University and they don't even know what you're talking about.

    But hey, like I said, maybe I spoke with the wrong people there, right? Just connect me with someone in the Ministry of Education who says they're recognized.

    In this case it's not merely ideal, it is absolutely required if one is to take this institution seriously.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 6, 2014
  17. Delta

    Delta Active Member

    I agree! Here is a link to the Government of Turks and Caicos contact form:
    Contact | The Goverment of the Turks & Caicos Islands

    As a side note, I remember getting into a conversation on Degreeinfo years ago about IUGS of St. Kitts that actually is listed and accredited by the government of St. Kitts and the consensus on this forum was to stay away anyway.
    International University for Graduate Studies
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 6, 2014
  18. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly

    I called TCI's Ministry of Education directly and no one with whom I spoke had even heard of Charisma University. That's bad enough for me unless someone points me to a specific point of contact there who will confirm their recognition.

    Yes, I remember. I think that's because the Kittitians were doing things like awarding schools indefinite duration accreditation and other things like that which are contrary to generally accepted accreditation principles. I'm actually not entirely sure at present whether the Kittitians have stopped those things, or how well IUGS graduates fare when having their credentials evaluated by WES, etc.

    However, it is clear that IUGS is not lying about their status. And since that's the system there, and they're complying with it, I'm not sure what else IUGS could reasonably be expected to do.

    With Charisma, however, so far the preponderance of evidence isn't on their side on that, in my humble opinion. But worldtraveler said that he or she spoke with someone at TCI's Ministry of Education, so hopefully any minute now he or she will jump in with that contact information to remove all this cause for skepticism.
     
  19. Delta

    Delta Active Member

    Iugs

    I just went and checked the St Kitts accreditation website and do not see IUGS listed there anymore nor do they mention it on their website:

    Accredited Institutions | St. Kitts & Nevis Accreditation Board

    Accreditation and Affiliations


    We could talk ad nauseam about the potential pitfalls of attending a foreign school but suffice it to say let the buyer beware! My guess is that Charisma probably has a legitimate business license to operate in Turks and Caicos and ASIC accreditation but may or may not have the blessing of the Ministry of Education???
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 6, 2014
  20. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly

    Good catch. Apparently either IUGS either let it go or St. Kitts discredited them?

    Absolutely, one should do due diligence on entering anything major like enrolling in a degree program.

    Incorporation just requires a phone call and a credit card number, so yes, I readily believe that they have this.

    They do have ASIC, although it's worth asking why their ASIC listing shows them to be in the Philippines and not TCI. Also, the value of ASIC has been discussed here at length, no need to go into that again, I think.

    As for TCI's Ministry of Education, you seem to giving them the benefit of very little doubt when it comes to that. Having already called there personally, I'll remain skeptical unless someone provides me with a point of contact there who will verify their recognition.

    Don't get me wrong here. I want to see the West Indies become a "net exporter" of higher education and I think that's entirely possible. I believe that small countries can be an ideal platform from which to offer distance learning, particularly that with innovative models. So if someone provides me with a point of contact there who verifies their recognition, I'll report that just as vociferously as I'm reporting my skepticism.
     

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