Did Russians successfully manipulate or change American votes?

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by me again, Jan 5, 2017.


Did Russians successfully manipulate or change American votes?

Poll closed Feb 4, 2017.
  1. Russians hacked into American election-machines and illegally altered votes.

    0 vote(s)
  2. Russians hacked the DNC & exposed immorality or criminality, causing citizens to change their votes

  3. Russians DID psychologically make citizens change their votes with cyberwarfare & media manipulation

  4. Russians did NOT psychologically make citizens change their votes with cyberwarfare & manipulation

Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Had anyone noticed how goalposts have shifted? Everyone now accepts that the Russians hacked the DNC and Podesta to help Trump get elected. "Everyone" includes Trump himself. But no one cares anymore; everyone talks about peeing prostitutes.
  2. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    "I would never comment on investigations — whether we have one or not — in an open forum like this so I can't answer one way or another," Comey told the Senate's intelligence committee during his first public appearance before Congress since the unusual disclosure about Clinton.

    "The irony of your making that statement, I cannot avoid," said Sen. Angus King, a Maine independent.
    At Russia hearing, FBI Director James Comey mum about possible Trump probe - Chicago Tribune

  3. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Every mainstream media outlet is discussing it and disclosing it in great detail e.g. CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, MSNBC, the New York Times, etc.
  4. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    CNN didn't. They reported that the memo existed and intel agencies thought it to be important enough to bring up to Obama and Trump. Investigation pending. You know, this is exactly like covering Comey letter, notifying Congress about investigation that turned up bupkis - after killing Clinton momentum leading to Nov. 8th. The parallel is astounding. Yet you didn't yell "fake news" then.

    Tell me just one thing. If the media is so liberal, why did they saddle Al Gore with the lie that he claimed he "invented the Internet"? This thing is still treated like Gospel by lots of people btw. How do you explain this blatant swiftboating of a liberal candidate? Come to think of it: didn't "the media" give platform for the actual swiftboaters, and also Whitewater investigation, Behghazi , ad infinitem ad nauzem, slavishly covering every right-wing attack? Weren't these "fake news"?
  5. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Eight years of a Trump presidency

    Stanislav, please memorize these words: "Four more years!"

    Those are the words you're going to hear when Donald Trump is reelected for a second presidential term. You heard it here first - and there are still eight more days remaining (as of Jan. 12, 2017) until Trump is sworn-in for his first presidential term!

    God bless the United States!
    God bless Donald Trump!
    And make America great again!
  6. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    I wonder if this is in any way based on The Donald's "record". And half-wonder if the cheering and chants of "Tump!" and "MAGA" will be compulsory by 2020.

    In the meanwhile, bookies assess chances that DJT will serve his full term as 50/50. One can still hope.
    Memory eternal to fallen heroes in Donbass and civilians in Aleppo, victims of newly emboldened Vlad "the Impaler" Putin.
    (Useless trivia: Putin actually has three different nicknames. "Tavricheskii" refers to his "return" of Crimea, that used to go by the name Tavrida in Tsarina Katherine's times. "Sortirnyj", referring to the outhouse - refers to his boast of killing terrorists "in the outhouse" during the Second Chechen War. And "Khuilo", from the Ukrainian soccer fans chant; meaning is an unprintable profanity. I prefer that last one. This is your closest ally now, folks.)
  7. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    It's funny, me again is downgrading his optimism. He was so excited he was saying it would be 8 years of DJT, then 4 years of Pence. Yeah, I don't think so. I am guessing Donald will be a one term President.

    But on the subject of Trump and his BFF Putin and Russia. I am glad to see that folks like McCain and Graham are demanding investigations in to the Russian hacking scandal. They broke ranks and have displayed what it is to be a true patriot. Furthermore, the people will demand answers, and the answer as to why Donald loves Putin so much may unfold. But since we are on the subject of Putin, I will post this video of Rubio grilling Tillerson:


    So, I have to wonder, why did Donald pick a guy like Tillerson? I mean, he has so many ties to Russia and Putin. And in the past, Donald picked Manafort as one of his henchmen, and of course, Manafort had to quit because of his ties to Russia. What is with Donald and Russia? Why is Donald so hesitant to say anything bad about Putin? Why is it that Trump was opposed to sanctions against Russia? It seems to me he is scared about something. Hmm, we will find out soon enough.

    Oh, one last thing. It is also interesting to note that one of the law firms Trumpeta is using is ranked as Russia's law firm of the year. He sure seems to love Russia, and once again I wonder why.
  8. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

    On Obama's watch. And there's the unfolding story of Ukrainian pimping for Hillary. And the Billionaires for Hillary Club.

    Lordy, Lordy, what would a full investigation reveal?
  9. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Yes, it will be 12 glorious years:

    8 years Trump +
    4 years Pence =
    12 years total
  10. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

  11. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    As it is always the case when a Clinton is investigated - nothing of consequence. We have seen this movie before, over and over and over again.

    I'd like to see more info on Ukrainian connection. You must understand that for any Ukrainian-American who has any interest in the old country at all, just two words, "Paul" and "Manafort", are poison enough. Given his client list and the fact that Paul's close associate is literally a GRU agent ("retired"), this should be poison for anyone - and hiring Manafort was seen as an "improvement" in Trumpland staffing!

    then there's this gem:
    Trump campaign guts GOP’s anti-Russia stance on Ukraine.

    Even given Trump's Putin infatuation, it was not clear why his peeps would suddenly have a position on this particular question, giving up a potential bargaining point to boot. The latest revelations suggest an answer.

    Finally, Rex Tillerson is THE most high profile and vocal opponent of Russia sanctions (made sense at the moment as his company was losing a half a trillion oil development contract). Short of installing a literal puppet in the iconic Sec. of State post, this is exactly the person Putin would hand-pick for the role.
  12. TomE

    TomE New Member

    I got the joke; the problem was with the relationship/comparison made with it.
  13. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    If you mean that the Clintons get passes on the law that no regular citizen would ever get in a bazillion years, then you're absolutely correct, we've seen that movie, over and over again.

    Bill Clinton committed perjury as sure as I'm typing these words right now. Perjury is a felony, yet he suffered no criminal penalties.

    Hillary Clinton committed perjury to Congress and destroyed evidence in a criminal investigation, both felonies. She suffered (at least so far) no criminal penalties.

    Nothing of consequence? You surely can't be serious.
  14. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Well, he was disbarred for five years, wasn't he? Not that there was any practical effect, since he still made millions from giving speeches, but still.

    She did lose an election, at least.
  15. b4cz28

    b4cz28 Active Member

    I laughed so hard at this. As if Hillary was not selling influence to the highest bidder. Is it me or did she cheapen the office to the lowest point in US History. Did we sell a bunch of uranium to Russia which turned around and sold it to Iran?
  16. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Bill tried to get away with an adulterous affair, on the job to boot. And failed. Most men do not get charged criminally with stuff like that. Most men also do not have their failed real estate deals investigated by a dedicated team that would unearth something like that.

    What Bill Clinton did with Monica was extremely uncool, morally wrong, and contrary to most good HR policies. Yet I'm fairly confident many, many men do get away with stuff like that. He, on the other hand, did NOT.

    See, sometimes it's so easy to be in your camp. To a Clinton supporter, the world is baffling.
    Take Petraeus. He removed notebooks full of top secret information (real spy stuff, sources, methods, secret identities) from work with the explicit purpose to give them to an unauthorized person. A person he had an affair with; as a side note, both were reserve officers, and adultery is an offense you theoretically can get court marshalled for under the Uniform Code of Justice, and get up to the dishonorable discharge (although I imagine it doesn't happen too often nowadays). Then he hid the notebooks in his house, and lied to investigators about it. He is guilty of a misdemeanor. No one asks for his head, the guy is a respected and tragic figure. All good.
    On the other hand, when a technophobe grandmother lets her bright and loyal, but in over its collective head, team set the system up so she can use her favourite blackberry for personal purposes AND as an unclassified channel for work - why, that's a felony, and practically high treason. Oh, and abong the thousands of emails there were two classified messages that were later declassifies, and a message containing a top secret information - namely, the fact that the U. S. has a lethal drones program. Shocking. And, oh yeah, past Secretaries used third party systems for work too (as I mentioned, setting up a "homebrew server" is actually more prudent than using Yahoo Mail as Powell did).
    For the Clinton team, the e-mail setup was a stupid thing to do, precisely because of the optics - it was bound to cause them embarrassment down the road. But the substantial wrongdoing was relatively (relatively) minor. You know, people regularly "get away" with things when investigations do not turn up evidence of intentional wrongdoing.

    I [redict we'll all feel the consequences.
    Now, do you know what's a felony? Grabbing women by the p#ssy, that's what.
  17. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    It's you.
    In short, no. That's not what happened at all. And if you buy a map of the world, you'll see that Russia is this gigantic country that may just have its own uranium to sell to Iran. In fact, it mines about three times as much uranium as do USA.

    Interestingly, what the Clintons are guilty here is lack of disclosure. They promised to disclose a list of Foundation donors - and they did, complying with the letter of the law, and the agreement. But the disclosure was obscure in few places, just enough to make these wild conjectures semi-plausible. That's not good. However, people who care about things like that can't be OK with Trump, who seems to think that "disclosure" is either a kinky sex practice or a some kind of sports injury. Where are the tax returns?

    Now, if the subject is any other person, things like you wrote (and like what you read in your sources) would be libel. But about Clintons - why, it's a fun and profitable activity. One that can get a man to become the Chief Strategist and Senior Counsel to the President.

    (and I didn't even have time to make fun of the notion that whatever the Clintons supposedly did justifies Trump. Move on and concentrate on the horrendous things your future Commander in Chief is engaged in).
  18. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    In local news, Canada reshuffled the Cabinet to prepare for Trump administration. I'm especially pumped about Chrystia Freeland, a superstar journalist and fellow member of Toronto Ukrainian community, as a new Foreign Minister. She has experience as a tough executive in Thompson Reuters and is everything Trump is not - smart, informed, well-respected, a Liberal, an investigative journalist with the best "mainstream media" outlets, just successfully negotiated a new sweeping trade pact with the EU. And she has an extremely clear view on Russia - she is fluent in the language and literally wrote a book on Russian kleptocracy. Kudos!
  19. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    Her qualifications sound impeccable!
  20. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Elections show what Americans want -- and don't want

    Prior to the 2016 elections, Democrats controlled most States, along with the U.S. presidency. However, under the careful watch of Obama and Hillary Clinton, the Democrats lost control of most States, to include the presidency. In 2017, Republicans now dominate state governments, with 32 legislatures and 33 governors.

    The American people are speaking loud and clear.

    Full story:
    Republicans now dominate state government, with 32 legislatures and 33 governors
    (click the link and then scroll down to see all the images)
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 15, 2017

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