Did Russians successfully manipulate or change American votes?

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by me again, Jan 5, 2017.

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Did Russians successfully manipulate or change American votes?

Poll closed Feb 4, 2017.
  1. Russians hacked into American election-machines and illegally altered votes.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Russians hacked the DNC & exposed immorality or criminality, causing citizens to change their votes

    15.0%
  3. Russians DID psychologically make citizens change their votes with cyberwarfare & media manipulation

    15.0%
  4. Russians did NOT psychologically make citizens change their votes with cyberwarfare & manipulation

    70.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Here's today's (Jan. 11) blitzkrieg of "scripted fake news" from the mainstream media:

    Reuters:
    Russian hackers claim to have compromising information on Trump: CNN

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/russian-hackers-claim-compromising-information-trump-cnn-224612200.html

    New York Times:
    This new poll has all kinds of bad news for Donald Trump

    link deleted by New York Times

    The Washington Post:
    Trump’s popularity problem will get even worse

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/the-fix/wp/2017/01/10/this-new-poll-has-all-kinds-of-bad-news-for-donald-trump/

    Tech Crunch:
    Leaked memos allege Trump’s lawyer helped orchestrate Russian hacking

    https://techcrunch.com/2017/01/10/leaked-memos-allege-trumps-lawyer-helped-orchestrate-russian-hacking/amp/


    The blitzkrieg of scripted fake news has become laughable and shows ineffective desperation.
     
  2. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    All I see is a few negative headlines about your guy. Do you have anything to refute these or show that the stories are in bad faith? Media takes interest in Trump on account of him being, you know, President-Elect. As I said many, many times, the media was, in effect, a friend of Trump's during this campaign by covering his every move ad nausem and presenting the two leading candidates, astonishingly, as "equally flawed". Similarly, the media, more than anyone else, gave us GWB by deciding it'd be fun to swiftboat the boring, eminently qualified frontrunner Al Gore on "inventing the Internet" thing, and simultaneously going soft on the "likable" Bush. So to sum up, the alleged "liberal media bias" is a myth.

    What the media is biased toward is a story that'd drive up the ratings. Unfortunately for Trump, that's "new President in trouble already" narrative at the moment, just like the classic "Clinton scandals" series and "Trump peep of the day" comedy show were in demand before. Enjoy the ride.
     
  3. jhp

    jhp Member

    I think the First Amendment does protect the media, just as it protects the individuals. It should and cannot be more protected. It has become holier-than-thou.

    Irrelevant of what side, they must account for their garbage.

    I do not know the answer how to measure something as "fake", and what punishment to met out....

    I do love "creative compensation".
     
  4. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Scripted Fake News

    Stanislav, the fake news that is being distributed by the mainstream media is not backed up with evidence. Nadda. Zip. None. There is nothing to refute. It's fake news.
     
  5. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Scripted fake news

    Title: Russian tech expert named in Trump report says US intelligence never contacted him

    Author: Kevin G. Hall and Tim Johnson McClatchy

    Snip: A Russian tech expert whose name was used in the document accusing connections between Donald Trump and Russian hackers says no intelligence officers have ever contacted him. He says the accusations in the American intelligence report are false. The report was compiled by Western intelligence. The document included unsubstantiated claims of collusion between the Trump campaign and the Kremlin. It also alleged that...

    Link:
    Aleksej Gubarev, of Russia's Webzilla, says hacking charges false | McClatchy DC
     
  6. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    Fox defends CNN

    Hmm

    https://www.yahoo.com/tv/fox-news-defends-rival-cnn-against-donald-trump-213951823.html

    “Though we at Fox News cannot confirm CNN’s report, it is our observation that its correspondents followed journalistic standards,” Smith said. “Neither they, nor any other journalists, should be subjected to belittling and delegitimizing by the president-elect of the United States.”

    “Though we at Fox News cannot confirm CNN’s report, it is our observation that its correspondents followed journalistic standards,” Smith said. “Neither they, nor any other journalists, should be subjected to belittling and delegitimizing by the president-elect of the United States.”

    The story was printed in "good faith". Trump can't keep saying stuff like:

    “Your organization is terrible, don’t be rude,” the president-elect said. “No, I’m not going to give you a question. You are fake news.”

    From CNN

    "Given that members of the Trump transition team have so vocally criticized our reporting, we encourage them to identify, specifically, what they believe to be inaccurate.”

    The fact is we now have a President that will probably be involved in one scandal or another. He will also be dealing with multiple lawsuits while in office. Some are saying that he has not properly divested (ethics issues) himself from his business dealings. In essence, we will have a part time President.

    With someone like Trump, you have to wonder when something will pop up, like that video in which he stated that he grabs women by their pussies. Who knows? Maybe a hacker will get a hold of his tax returns and we can figure out why Trump is so in love with Russia. It is strange that he was/is against sanctioning Russia for interfering with the election. Very strange indeed.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 12, 2017
  7. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Scripted Fake News

    Title: The Deep State Goes to War with President-Elect, Using Unverified Claims, as Democrats Cheer

    Author: Glenn Greenwald

    Snip: A faction is engaged in open warfare against the duly elected president-elect, Donald Trump. They are using classic Cold War dirty tactics and “Fake News.”

    Their most valuable instrument is the U.S. media, which reflexively reveres, serves, believes and sides with hidden intelligence officials. And Democrats, still reeling from their unexpected and traumatic election loss, as well as a systemic collapse of their party, are willing — eager — to embrace any claim, any tactic, align with any villain, regardless of how unsupported, tawdry and damaging those behaviors might be.

    But cheering for the CIA and its shadowy allies to unilaterally subvert the U.S. election and impose its own policy on the elected president is warped and self-destructive. Empowering the very entities that have produced the most shameful atrocities and systemic deceit over the last six decades is desperation of the worst kind. Demanding that evidence-free, anonymous assertions be instantly venerated as Truth — despite emanating from the very precincts designed to propagandize and lie — is an assault on journalism, democracy, and basic human rationality. And casually branding domestic adversaries who refuse to go along as traitors and disloyal foreign operatives, is morally bankrupt and is certain to backfire on those doing it.

    There is no bigger favor that Trump opponents can do for him than attacking him with shabby obvious shams, and recruiting large media outlets to lead the way. But then when it comes time to...

    Link:
    https://theintercept.com/2017/01/11/the-deep-state-goes-to-war-with-president-elect-using-unverified-claims-as-dems-cheer/
     
  8. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Scripted fake news from intelligence community?

    Title: Trump's sting ensnares intelligence leaks

    Author: Geoff Earle

    Snip: After growing suspicious that intelligence officials were leaking news about their classified briefings with Donald Trump, he conducted a sting operation to prove that spies were behind the leaks.

    Trump suggested the intelligence community had been behind unproven allegations against him.

    Trump said, "I think it’s pretty sad when intelligence reports get leaked out to the press. First of all, it’s illegal. These are classified and certified meetings and reports. I’ll tell you what does happen. I have many meetings with intelligence. And every time I meet, people are reading about it. Somebody’s leaking them out. So I said, 'Maybe it’s my office. Maybe my office. Because I’ve got a lot of people … Maybe it’s them?' What I did, is, I said I won’t tell anyone. I’m going to have a meeting, and I won’t tell anybody about my meeting with intelligence."

    He even shielded one of his closest aides from word of the meeting. "Nobody knew – not even my executive assistant. She didn’t know – I didn’t tell her. Nobody knew"

    Having set the trap, the word leaked anyway

    "The meeting was held. They left, and immediately the word got out that I had a meeting. So, I don’t want that. It’s very unfair to the country. It’s very unfair to our country what’s happening," Trump said.

    Link:
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4110654/Trump-conducts-sting-operation-ensnare-intelligence-briefers-says-caught-leaking.html
     
  9. Steve Levicoff

    Steve Levicoff Well-Known Member

    And now, a related question for me again:

    You seem to be so "single issue" and obsessive-compulsive about defending your President-elect, how do you find any time to work on your degree program?
    :haha:
     
  10. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Boom! Fox (Fox!) gets it.
     
  11. b4cz28

    b4cz28 New Member


    I will hold no punches...You are a total clown.

    You are also a racist.

    To place the selection process on what you expect our next president to look like and not how they preform is nothing short of total stupidity.

    How about we pick our next president based off their actions and not their skin color or sex? People like you are the reason Trump won. Ultra PC far left extremist. Like she was so smart lol. Name one thing she did that warranted her receiving the fawning praise she got from our media? What made her so smart? Stealing millions and getting away with it?

    Still no comment on Obama messing with the Israeli election? How about all the gold we've been giving to Iran that they used to buy uranium from Russia, that we sold (Hillary) Russia?

    Here's another gem, do you remember the hacking Obama was doing inside the US? How about the wire taps of reporters? https://www.yahoo.com/news/govt-obtains-wide-ap-phone-records-probe-202010831.html?ref=gs

    Oh I know! How about the time Obama executed four US citizens https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-acknowledges-killing-of-four-us-citizens-in-counterterrorism-operations/2013/05/22/7a21cf84-c31d-11e2-8c3b-0b5e9247e8ca_print.html
     
  12. b4cz28

    b4cz28 New Member

    Shep is on his way out just like Kelly. If you think that trashing a person with fake documents is ok, I'm done talking to you. Have we sank to a new low? I would not have been ok if someone did this to HRC or Obama, nor should you be ok with someone doing this to any American. Shep is wrong and so are you.
     
  13. TomE

    TomE New Member

    So if Clinton would have won Santa Claus would have become real? I kind of want to go back and change my vote now!
     
  14. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Should have done it this time.

    Srsly, if the past election did not show that women face an unfair set of standards I don't know what will. Not just Hillary; Fiorina too. Carla Fiorina is one of the most hated tech executives ever (for her actual performance at HP); was she called on it? No; it was about her "face" instead. But, of course, they both should have "stayed home and baked cookies" lol. (Also, if you're a college and admit applicants that's 100% male and 97.78% White it will get your Title IX yanked and may threaten your accreditation).

    (for the record:, yes, Rubio's infamous dick joke was wrong too. Funny, but wrong.)

    You still don't get that people dislike Trump based on his performance. Ogling half naked teenagers backstage Miss Universe pageants is "performance". Lying through his teeth is "performance". Cheating investors, customers and students is "performance". Hiring illegal Polish construction workers and then stiffing him on pay is "performance". So is unilaterally destroying what was left of your political culture.

    Yeah, 89% Black voters are all racist for voting for a White woman. Sure.

    I love love love the fact even you feel electing Trump warrants an excuse. But I'm not running for office so can deviate a bit from ultra-PC line, so here it goes: I don't buy it. Trump voters are the ones who are responsible for electing Trump. You'all are big boys/girls/ponies, and your actions are your actions. With dishonorable mention to all the third-party voters and no-shows in swing states. The guy ran using explicitly bigoted rhetoric, and you still voted how you did.

    As to Hillary's accomplishments, why don't you start with a Wikipedia page. I personally like Arkansas elementary ed reform. Discussing her alleged "stealing" requires two things. First, a well-sourced account of such (spoiler: it doesn't exist). Second, to be fair, we need to discuss the ways other guys made their money, but there's a little problem: one of them did not release his tax returns.

    Sure. How about this: we skip Obama discussion altogether. Here how it would go: I post a link to lengthy article on Obama legacy; you dismiss it as partisan. You post your own links, I dismiss them as well. Interestingly, under Obama, economy is up and unemployment is down; USA struggled much less past 2008 than any other developed nation. Canada used to be ahead, but not anymore since oil prices tanked. American automakers are the biggest in the world again, and solar industry made tremendous progress (to note two things with administration's hand in them).
    On Israeli elections, I`ll just note that Netaniahu did not claim Obama messed with them (some staffer of his campaign did). You know why? Because Obama did not mess with Israeli elections, that's why. Other than criticising some of his actions, which he feels is oh so unfair. On AP (and a host of other stories): yep, state apparatus makes shitty things even under Obama. Will Trump be the friend of the press? Not unless he lied about it on the campaign trail. And on Terrorism, I'm sure you have a better way to fight it, and so does Trump (no he doesn't).
     
  15. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    What?
    I guess I need to explain my jokes. Currently, "Santa is real" and "girls can be President" are lies for children. I sure do not want to be "selling" my girls on them when they're a bit older. Sure hope one of them would change real soon, and I believe it will. So far, again, the nation is not even ready for a female Ghostbuster.
     
  16. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Fake news is a “dead horse on arrival.”

    Master Steve, you make a lot of good points. It seems the mainstream media has become obsessive-compulsive in ways never previously seen. For example, the blitzkrieg of obsessive-compulsive reporting of fake news by the mainstream media has enabled Trump to deftly show his excellent leadership skills by making pointed and accurate assessments, thus allowing him to navigate through the media’s constant barrage of scripted smoke and mirrors. Donald Trump is successfully ploughing through media-driven “political correctness” with a wrecking ball.

    All politicians would have crumbled under the pressure of dealing with the mainstream media’s blitzkrieg of political lies and “scripted fake news,” but Trump is an anomaly because he sees through the scripted smoke and mirrors – and he consistently and deftly “calls it like he sees it.” Trump consistently and deftly pinpoints bold and accurate assessments. Instead of crumbling, Trump comes out stronger, much to the angst of those who are financially supporting the ideology of the leftist mainstream media. Fake news is a “dead horse on arrival.”
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 12, 2017
  17. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    The Christmas Holidays have provided extra time to do extracurricular readings, such as participating in this website. As a sidebar, it’s interesting to note that almost all secular colleges and universities now classify “Christmas Holidays” as “Winter Break,” which removes Christ from the season.

    Anyway, recent theological studies have included reading about how we got various Catholic and Protestant Bibles, to include reading about Jerome (started the Latin translation in 382), Tyndale, Wycliff, Luther and others. It’s easier reading than last semester, which included the Summa by St. Augustine.
     
  18. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    I quickly note that CNN did no such thing; go back to what they actually reported. But, did you say "new"? "NEW"??? Really?
    Now you're just messing with me. Have you heard of the "birther movement"? Who was the most prominent peddler of that trash? On HRC: on this very forum, someone posted a link to "top ten biggest Clinton crimes" to prove she was corrupt. Number 1 was "Vince Foster murder", which is not just unsourced but actually debunked, many times. How can you say this with a straight face? I dunno, Pizzagate? Rings a bell? Unbelievable.
     
  19. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Most people incorrectly believed that after the elections ended, the mainstream media could not possibly sink any lower, but it did e.g. without a shred of evidence, the leftist mainstream media broadcast a global report that Trump had engaged in “golden showers” with multiple prostitutes in a bed that Obama had previously slept in. For those of you who don’t know: a golden shower is the use of urine during a sex act. The leftist mainstream media slid from the higher levels of hell into the lower depths of slimy pornographic readings.
     
  20. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Not "the mainstream leftist media". Buzzfeed. Which is a left-wing alternative news source not unlike the right wing ones you prefer. Mainstream media had the document for months and sat on it, precisely because the details cannot be verified. Not that similar concerns stopped (Russians through) Wikileaks and others harming HRC with innuendo.

    James Comey was asked if the FBI investigated these claims. His response? "I don't, especially in a public forum, we never confirm or deny a pending investigation." That's mining the farthest depths of irony. Priceless.
     

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