Did Russians successfully manipulate or change American votes?

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by me again, Jan 5, 2017.

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Did Russians successfully manipulate or change American votes?

Poll closed Feb 4, 2017.
  1. Russians hacked into American election-machines and illegally altered votes.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Russians hacked the DNC & exposed immorality or criminality, causing citizens to change their votes

    15.0%
  3. Russians DID psychologically make citizens change their votes with cyberwarfare & media manipulation

    15.0%
  4. Russians did NOT psychologically make citizens change their votes with cyberwarfare & manipulation

    70.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. b4cz28

    b4cz28 New Member

    Did you get that form CNN? You know the people that were giving debate questions to Hillary lol. The sheer number of false stories or straight up lies they told during the election has wrecked them.

    The government never even looked at the DNC server. They claimed 17 agency's signed off on the report but they did not. As if the Russians hacking the emails changed the content of anything. So I am glad they did, it if they did (they didn't) because it showed how racist the DNC was/is and how creepy and sneaky Pedo-esta and HRC are.

    The Chinese have done far worse.

    If you respond to me please answer how you feel about Obama messing with the Israeli election.

    Also what was up with the odd hours of HRC emails they other day?
    http://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2017/january/fbi-quietly-releases-more-clinton-email-records
    It turns out she did far worse than she claimed. FBI also lied to us it seems. Still trust those reports? Also the man has not even been president for a day and you hate him? I am shocked at the level of ignorance (not calling you ignorant) that exists about him. What don't you like?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 10, 2017
  2. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Is this a serious question? Just because he hasn't been inaugurated yet doesn't mean no one knows anything about him.
     
  3. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Exactly. We're talking fairly famous person here.

    Few comments:
    1. We know that the Russians messed with elections not from "CNN", but from U. S. Intelligence Community. Even Trump doesn't dispute that. I understand most people do not pay attention to this, but Russians are trying to weaken Western democracy for some years now.
    2. Trump supporters must cease badmouthing `mainstream media`; it was the media who made Trump viable candidate to begin with.
    3. I love when supporters defend Trump by suggesting he`s essentially a clean slate. First, this suggests that every word out of his mouth has been a lie. I`m glad we`re in agreement that the guy is a lying psychopath; I think you guys exaggerate a bit on EVERYTHING he said being a lie. See, I`m defending Trump from YOU now. Second, and I can`t believe it needs to be pointed out: being a clean slate is NOT GOOD ENOUGH in a President-Elect; otherwise you could just take a random guy from the phone book.
    4. Chinese did a lot of hacking, but please give an example of when they did so to support one candidate vs. another. The hack itself is not by any stretch unprecedented; the overall spetzoperatziia is.
    5. Think about it: why would the Russians prefer Trump? Try to remember that they are NOT friends of "the West".

    My three biggest pragmatic objections to Trump is his enormous potential for self-dealing, his anti-immigrant hate mongering, and troubling connections to the Kremlin. Any one issue would be enough to disqualify a person; every single candidate out there was better in at least one respect.

    Also, the guy is morally repugnant. I do not know how anyone with a vagina OR an ounce of empathy could support the guy after just `blood coming out of her wherever` quip, and there were countless other horrible things culminating in the `pussygate`. USA used to have a sort of minimum standard for Presidents
     
  4. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Adding to the above: groups that voted substantially for Trump are "men" and "white people". What is it that's wrong with us?
    Also, Democrats owe us a female President in 2020; preferably younger, a minority, and as smart as Hillary. The last point might be a challenge.
     
  5. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    The First Amendment allows Americans to be analytical, critical, judgmental and publicly vocal of the double-standards and fake news from the mainstream media. George Soros may be able to payoff the media, but Soros was unable to buy the integrity of the American people -- which is why Trump won the electoral vote.
     
  6. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Stanislav, what credentials qualify you to make a mental health diagnosis of someone that:
    - you've only seen on TV and
    - you've never met, questioned or interviewed?
     
  7. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Stanislav, the American electorate disagrees with you.
     
  8. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Welcome to politics. Politics is the same all over the world because wherever there are people, there will also be politics.
     
  9. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Stanislav, please note that black groups and Indian groups and Mexican groups and many other groups also voted for Trump - and there is nothing wrong with them for doing so. Also, "b4cz28" is black and he does not fit your stereotypical profile because he is a Trump supporter. According to the egregious democrat analogy that was trumped up by the democrats: your racial profiling and your racial judgementalism makes you a racist (the democrats words). Are you a racist?
     
  10. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Stanislav, are you suggesting that candidates should be selected based upon the color of their skin or their gender?
     
  11. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    This reads like self-loathing parody.
     
  12. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    This is a typical deepity that is factually wrong, as well as bad epistemic attitude. Snap out of it.
     
  13. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Yeah, the Constitution allows Americans to sound unintelligent if that's what they choose. I repeat: Trump is a product of the "media"; they made him formidable. It is silly at the extreme to complain about the media bias if you're Trump supporter. If you're Trump, on the other hand, it's not silly - it is dishonest at the extreme.
     
  14. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    I am not suggesting that. I'm telling that it is important that my girls live in a world where a girl can be POTUS. So far, the country ain't even ready for female Ghostbusters (almost not a joke).
    Of the 45 U. S. presidents, 44 or roughly 98% have been white men. I'm really interested in your working theory on why is it so.
     
  15. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Men preferred Trump 51% to 42%
    Women preferred Clinton 54-41
    Whites preferred Trump 57-37 (!!!)
    Blacks preferred Clinton 89-8 (that's right)
    Latinos preferred Clinton 66-28.
    I have no idea why you're so adamant to ignore this.
    I am aware there are black Trump voters. It's a cliche, but I do have a friend like this. I believe they, just like white Trump voters, are catastrophically wrong. And yeah, I know the Constitution protects your right to be wrong, just as it protects people's right to call you on it.

    No. Nice strawman, though.
     
  16. TomE

    TomE New Member

    To be fair, the age requirement is probably never going to be lowered so not too many "girls" are going to make it into the White House.

    Jokes aside, Clinton was a few blunders away from becoming POTUS. Because no woman has won the office yet, is it too difficult to sell that a woman can (and one almost did) become POTUS?
     
  17. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Right now I can sell them on Santa Claus, but how long do you think I can continue lying to them, and to what end?
     
  18. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Scripted Fake News

    Here is more "scripted fake news" from the mainstream media:

    Title: FBI Investigating Unconfirmed Claims That Trump Was Personally Compromised by Russians

    Authors: Brian Ross and Matthew Mosk

    Snip: Unsubstantiated allegations that Donald Trump was in league with Russian hackers appeared in a dossier given to the FBI by democratic operatives, who also circulated the documents to the media. The documents claim Trump was personally compromised by the Russians during a trip to Moscow and Trump's aides were involved with Russian hacking of the DNC. The dossier outlines ties between Trump’s team and Russian agents.

    The dossier was presented during classified intelligence briefings to President Obama and President-elect Trump.

    The dossier provides no evidence.

    Trump wrote on Twitter: “FAKE NEWS - A TOTAL POLITICAL WITCH HUNT!”

    Kellyanne Conway said the fake news is "just to smear the president-elect of the United States, and now we now have intelligence officials divulging that information. This is fake."

    Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said "it’s a spoof story, it’s absolute fabrication and complete nonsense.”


    Source:
    FBI Investigating Unconfirmed Claims That Trump Was Personally Compromised by the Russians - ABC News
     
  19. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Thanks for bringing attention to it. Apparently, someone at the Kremlin privately told a retired British spy that Trump had rented a hotel room where the Obamas previously spent and hired prostitutes (plural) to engage in "golden shower" acts on the bed. And the KGB has a tape of it to blackmail Trump with. Fascinating.
    Media reports the truth: that the report exists and is taken seriously enough by U.S. spies to investigate, and to brief Trump and Obama on it. The report itself, as circulated by Buzzfeed, appears to be a collection of third- and fourth-person accounts by Kremlin insiders. So, and to take one episode, all it says is that some guy, likely over vodka in some overpriced Moscow bar, told a commercial intelligence agent that KGB has a tape with Trump and prostitutes; it may or may not mean the tape actually exists. It can simply be a drunken boast. There are many information tidbits in the 35-page document, and some of them are likely erroneous - we have no clue which ones.

    Still, it is fun to find out how the guy is seen inside the Kremlin (essentially as a spying mark). I believe (and maintain that my belief is reasonable, though not any kind of definite proof) that the Cheka did cultivate Trump for a long time, and it appears that they were successful enough to justify the hack-and-release effort to help him get elected.

    I found it interesting that apparently "the media" had this document before the election and chose not to publish it, vary of affecting the outcome with unproven allegations. No such reservations apparent from known Kremlin lackeys Wikileaks and from presumably American patriot Comey - and from the "mainstream media" to distribute these. You keep undermining your own case, me again.

    Also, thanks for including the bit about Dmitry Peskov denying the claims. As the saying goes, if Peskov denies a claim, that claim must be true. He even drove this point home by deadpanning that "Kremlin does not engage in collection of kompromat" - a remarkably good joke. Yeah, Dima, sure: the collection of competing groups of former KGB spies and informants does not do no kompromat! Hilarious.

    Peskov is prominent enough for his mustache to have a Twitter account, and was grilled in the media for ostentatious displays of wealth. E. g. his recent wedding (to a TV star and former Olympic figure skater Tatiana Navka) was a big tabloid event, as was a $600,000 Swiss watch this lifetime public servant was photographed wearing on a said wedding. Navka herself (allegedly a naturalized US citizen - unlike Melania Trump, her Olympic medal would clearly qualify her for EB1 or at least EB2 Green Card) was recently in the news - she and partner portrayed a Treblinka Nazi death camp inmates in a figure skating show (sort of Russian Dancing with the Stars clone, on ice). Interestingly, he personally figures as instrumental in the Trump affair in that 35-page document.
     
  20. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Blitzkrieg of "scripted fake news" from the mainstream media

    see below for editorial update
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 11, 2017

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