Did Russians successfully manipulate or change American votes?

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by me again, Jan 5, 2017.


Did Russians successfully manipulate or change American votes?

Poll closed Feb 4, 2017.
  1. Russians hacked into American election-machines and illegally altered votes.

    0 vote(s)
  2. Russians hacked the DNC & exposed immorality or criminality, causing citizens to change their votes

  3. Russians DID psychologically make citizens change their votes with cyberwarfare & media manipulation

  4. Russians did NOT psychologically make citizens change their votes with cyberwarfare & manipulation

Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    The poll is open for 30 days and closes on Feb. 5, 2017.
  2. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Here's another thesis that is too long to put in the above poll:

    In the American federal government, there are at least three classes of people:
    1. Elected officials: they come and go, based on elections.
    2. Appointed officials: they are political appointees or nominees. They are beholden to political favors.
    3. Regular employees: they remain employed, regardless of which politician is in office.

    There are allegations that the political appointees in the federal government have become too political, which has resulted in the current unsubstantiated claims from within the intelligence community that the Russian government is influencing the American electoral system. The mainstream media has been reporting this fake-news script non-stop, even though no absolutely no proof whatsoever has been presented.

    To demonstrate how a political appointee can direct employees to accomplish political agendas: do you remember when the IRS was accused of targeting and investigating conservative 501c3 organizations that disagreed with Obama's political agenda? That is an example of how an IRS political nominee can direct lower level investigations.
  3. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    It's no point detailing how... let's say "unlikely"... that is, because we will know more very soon. I'll just do variable substitute and note that the set of "political appointees" in that thesis include Director of National Intelligence James Clapper; Admiral Michael Rogers, the director of the National Security Agency; and Marcel Lettre, the undersecretary of defense for intelligence. And that Congressmen (who actually heard the secret briefings), including Republicans, do not dispute the intelligence community assessment.

    Also, the notion that there is no evidence of Russian involvement is just false. One can argue whether evidence is sufficient, sure (until they release more data, that is). But, eg., the fact that the supposedly Romanian hacker's copy of MS Word identifies its user as "Feliks Edmundovich" in Cyrillic, kinda point to Russia. For those who does not know: Feliks Edmundovich Dzierdzhinsky was a Polish-Russian Bolshevik leader who was the founder of the Emergency Commission, (ChK, "Cheka"), a predecessor agency of the KGB and now FSB and SVR of Russia. Russian intelligence officers and secret police types still refer to themselves as "chekisty". I can bet Putin still identifies as a "chekist", it's a tightly knit community.

    It is astounding one would rather believe that the entire U.S. intelligence apparatus is politically compromised (for Democrats!) than that Russian spies spy. In fact, Russian hackers, possibly the same ones, hacked multiple European systems, including German parliament. Disrupting Western democratic institutions is one of the main goals of "information warfare" doctrine of the Russian military and intelligence ("spetzsluzhby") - read the research reports I linked to in another thread.
  4. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    You are correct: cyber-warfare is happening now and many nations are involved, to include the U.S., Russia, China, North Korea, Iran and many other governments and private entities.

    It is also possible that Russian actors hacked the DNC and then gave the materials to a third party who represented themselves as non-Russians (or represented themselves as DNC insiders) - and then they hypothetically gave the hacked materials to Julian Assange - so in Assange's mind, the hacked materials came from DNC insiders and not from Russians. It's called a "circuitous route" in spying; and it's designed to prevent the original source from being identified. However, it's all speculation.

    Conversely, long before the creation and release of the American intelligence report to Obama, the leftists American mainstream media has been reporting as factual that the Russians hacked the DNC (to release immoral or criminal DNC activities for the purpose of influencing public opinion and votes). The rub is that the mainstream media has no proof that the Russians hacked the DNC, yet they still report it as being factual.

    When the American intelligence report is officially released for public consumption, it may corroborate or refuse some or all of this -- but until then, it's all just speculation. Until then, the mainstream media's biased reporting is just "scripted fake news." Even a blind squirrel finds an occasional acorn.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 6, 2017
  5. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

  6. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

  7. b4cz28

    b4cz28 Active Member

    Oh those Russians! Lol.

    What? the US government getting caught messing with the Israelis election? Say it ain't soo!

    Netanyahu pollster: Obama role in election larger than reported | TheHill

    He has screwed the world up so bad that millions have died and been displaced, yet the media still fawns over him.

    Trump is contracted with multiple private intelligence firms because the info from the briefings from the Obama administration was full of lies and misinformation. Those private firms are full of the best and brightest stars in their fields and they are singing a different tune.

    Remember the FBI said no hacking right?

    Even Obama said no hacking only months ago.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 7, 2017
  8. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    He made the mess worse, but the mess was already there in the first place thanks to his predecessor. A pox on both their houses.
  9. b4cz28

    b4cz28 Active Member

    So today we find out they never even looked at the server! They are speculating about who hacked the DNC.
  10. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

  11. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    It turns out Russians DID engage in cyberwarfare to influence American voters. I wonder if the President-Elact Donald "No puppet, no puppet" Trump is prepared to do about it. So far, his tweets heavily suggest he is not. Sad!
  12. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Mainstream media unable to "wag the Trump dog" by its tail

    The Chinese have:
    - hacked into more federal computers than the Russians
    - breached millions of federal OPM records
    - done far more cyber espionage and damage than the Russians
    The leftist mainstream media is strangely silent about it because it doesn't fit their "scripted fake news" ideology. The mainstream media is also unable to "wag the Trump dog" by its tail. Fake news scripting isn't working for the left.
  13. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

  14. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    Considering the mainstream media was collaborating with the DNC during the election, I don't think it's too hard to figure out.
  15. Life Long Learning

    Life Long Learning Active Member

    Heck, the Chinese do not need to hack our computers as they MAKE them. Who knows what backdoor codes are on my computer?

  16. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

  17. jhp

    jhp Member

    I often write a response with facts, references, dates, names and such.

    I roll my chair back, and sadly realize that it is irrelevant. A decade ago, I could be convinced, or convince someone with logic and facts. Today, the only thing I would get is jeers and deprecation.

    So I just delete it and move onto an other thread.

    Plus, this retarded system logs me out before I can hit post.
  18. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Facts, references, names and dates are counterproductive to ideological plans and goals.

    In the old days, people respected the mainstream media because it "reported" the news, instead of "creating" the news to achieve ideological goals. The same can be said of political nominees who are running American intelligence.

    For example, during the Bush era, invading Iraq was an ideological goal, so the American intelligence leadership (the political nominees running intel) announced to the mainstream media that Iraq had WMD: that politically justified an invasion of the country. However, after the invasion, absolutely no evidence of WMD were discovered (nadda, zip, nothing, zero evidence). Even American intel is littered with appointed political operatives who are pushing unhealthy ideologies that are detrimental to the long-term National Security of the United States. Donald Trump is a smart man.

    Facts are counterproductive to ideological plans and goals. Thank goodness for the First Amendment.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 9, 2017
  19. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    When you log in, check the box for "keep me logged in".
  20. jhp

    jhp Member

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