DETC Doctorate program accreditation

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by Lerner, May 22, 2011.

  1. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    I'm not sure laughing at hummer drivers would really save polar bears... but sure, why not give it a try?
  2. Randy Kearns

    Randy Kearns Member

    Not a Hummer fan? So, what color is your Prius?

    And to stay with your analogy; I could also suggest you can buy a Yugo which is priced with the Lincolns. You are being conservation minded but is that your only goal?

    Seriously just a moment. I live in an academic environment that is highly competitive. Of the 3000+ faculty where I work, I know of no one with a (Yugo) UoP-like doctorate degree nor do I know of anyone with a (Hummer) DETC doctorate degree on the faculty here (they may have more than one doctorate and the second or third is a UoP type or DETC program but those are not indexed in the faculty directory so I just don't know). I'll also add that I know of no one getting an interview for a faculty job here from either pools of graduates, DETC or UoPs of the world.

    So again, where does that leave someone? What can they afford, what do they want to do with it? There is no shame and in fact lots of great people teach at a community college, I did for many years and am quite proud of it. All I'm saying is if working in the community college environment is your personal goal, and you, for whatever reason want to complete a doctorate, the DETC alternative may be give you want while saving $75,000 that you don't have. . . or will end up with in student loans that you can't pay off because did I mention you can't get a job at the institutions where better incomes are offered?

    Education is like anything you spend your time, effort and money on and it includes what do you want? What do you need for your goals and what can you afford?

    If DL is your only option but RA is a requirement, then I'd suggest places like (your own experience) Valdosta State, a good school, with a good program and at a good price. You may be more likely to attract attention if it was UGA but it's a longstanding part of the University of Georgia system and from a cost standpoint, a great value.

    I have always said and stand by the point that the DETC doctorate has significant limitations and that should always be noted. But so does the DL doctorate from a university like the UoP's of the world.

    With the professional doctorates where theres' little or no aim for an academic career, a second doctorate in a concentration or where there's a professional license such as the DPT program I discussed earlier, the DETC or the UoP-like programs will both work.

    Again, it comes back to what do you want to do? What is your goal(s) and what can you afford?

    Oh well, have a good day and enjoy your Prius.
  3. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    With the ecologically disastrous mining practices the Chinese use to extract the rare earth elements needed for current hybrid technology, a Prius is the last thing that environmentally conscious people should drive.

    (I know, that wasn't really your argument here. But it's fun to point out.)
  4. BobbyJim

    BobbyJim New Member

    Do any people even think that far on the hybrid technology idea?:banghead:
  5. truckie270

    truckie270 New Member

    As my friend Steve pointed out, the Prius is one of the truly great scams of the environmental movement.

    My point about the Hummer has nothing to do with my views on the environment and was honestly made in jest. Everyone knows that Hummers are for those with penis-size issues, not those with an insensitivity to the fate of the climate. I would rather walk than drive a Prius and am quite happy displaying my blatant love for capitalism and the consumption of fossil fuels in my Land Rover.

    My point about the whole Hummer analogy is that DETC doctorates have a very limited value to the point of not being worth the effort and no one here has been able to forward a convincing argument otherwise. I know the whole "I don't want to teach", "I am a consultant", or the "I work for the government and RA is not needed" arguments and these are short-sided at best. What if someday that person needed to teach for income or had to leave the .gov world? The time, effort, and energy spent on the pursuit of a vanity credential will have been wasted. Then there is the whole love of learning argument. Please - go to the library.

    If someone wants to earn an NA Doctorate, I really do not care one bit - to each his own. Likewise, a
    $75K degree from UoP, Capella, or any other for-profit is likely to yield many of the same results in terms of utility when compared to RA degrees from B&M state or private schools.

    It does get frustrating to see this argument pop up here so often when people wonder why they will not be competitive with an NA doctorate compared to those with an RA one or wonder why people look down on their degrees as inferior. The information is out there in spades, and whether it is justifiable or not it is what it is.

    My DPA degree from little, old Valdosta State cost me $15K total and has paid for itself ten-times over in the last two years from increased opportunities resulting from having a Doctorate.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 23, 2012
  6. truckie270

    truckie270 New Member

    I forgot this point - why is there always the automatic assumption when this topic comes up that someone earning a Doctorate wants to attract attention and work in the academia establishment that is defined by the traditional state or private university?

    There is a TON of money out there to be made by those with solid credentials and do not want to be tenure-track professors at a B&M school. With my regular job, my teaching, and a few other ventures I have going, I make more money than any tenure-track professor with none of the hassles.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 23, 2012
  7. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    I think this is a good point and I think that it isn't made often enough. People act like the only destination for a PhD is a university but this is simply not the case. Of course, it depends somewhat on the field of study but in many areas, there are far more PhDs working in private industry than academia. Oddly enough:indifferent: there are many people who have no interest at all in becoming a university professor.
  8. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    All of this is true. With the PhD glut, however, I wonder how many of those doctorate holders in private industry are there because that was really their preference, and how many aimed for academia but just couldn't find a position there.
  9. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    This is merely anecdotal, of course, but I run into a lot of Ph.D.'s in the private sector. Almost none of them were ever in academic careers, nor do they indicate that they ever wanted to be.

    I also meet a lot of JD's who do not practice law, nor ever have.
  10. Randy Kearns

    Randy Kearns Member

    Just a couple of comments . . . made and taken in jest, between my 4Runner and an older sports car, I don't own a Prius or a Hummer.

    I don't care either and I tend to agree the utility of a NA Doctorate is significantly limited, but as you pointed out so is a RA Doctorate from one of the for profits. I will add the RA degree will always be more marketable and offer more opportunities even from the for profits. But if your aim is academics at most universities, don't be disappointed when you show up with the UoP's - PhD and are told uh, no. Then you ended up in a community college where that NA doctorate would have offered you the same income for $75,000 fewer dollars out of your pocket. And if you're in the private sector? the NA doctorate may pay off just as well as the RA doctorate as to getting in the door, the rest is up to you regardless of what your "diplomas" would suggest.

    And your little ol' DPA from Valdosta State? Although the price has increased somewhat, that my friends is clearly one of the best values out there right now if a Doctorate in Public Administration will get you to where you want to go. State university, part of the UGA system, B/M foundation, long standing state institution, maybe not a top tier research university but still no slouch. It will work in the academic world, the private sector, and all points in between. No limitations and I bet you don't owe $100,000+ in student loans!

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