DETC and RA

No, DETC schools aren't better than most RA/DL schools, but are better than some of the bottom end ones. I agree with your statement. DETC schools are certainly within the range of the RA/DL schools.

 

I have been a student in both worlds. Both have their merits and both have their flaws.

DETC is not superior in any way to RA. I am getting an excellent education and DETC works for me. I have proctored exams, numerous term papers and could only transfer in 90 RA credits.

At the point I am in my career and life it works for me. I still think it has much better value in the work place than in academia.

It isn't always the best alternative. I strongly feel that new college students entering out of high school should go to RA schools. People who wish to teach and/or get graduate degrees from RA schools should go RA from the start.

DETC does have a place in distance education and is an alternative for some students.

 

This is a totally bogus conclusion. What you're comparing is huge schools versus small schools not DETC versus RA. Then you compare distance learning versus brick and mortar learning not DTEC versus RA.

 

You can rearrange my comment any way you wish if it makes you feel better, however the premise and the opinion were clearly stated.

 

The DETC also says that 2/3 of the students, from DETC schools, who chose to apply at traditional colleges, were accepted. This after the unfair bias shown by some RA schools. This 2/3 acceptance will likely become even greater, and probably already has, since this study was done in 2001.

 

If DETC's numbers are right, they are tragic. One of every three who attempted to transfer failed to do so.

This number jibes well with John's survey, which found that about 20% of RA schools say they always accept credits from NA schools, and another 20% say they usually do. That means that students with credits and/or degrees from DETC-accredited schools punch around a bit until they find a school that will take them. Eventually, 2/3 are successful. But what about the other third?

 

Kirkland, please correct my misunderstanding.

It seemed that you first compared distance learning with a large class in a state run school. You labeled it DETC learning though. (I remind you that there are more RA distance learning options than DETC.) You then seemed to compare a humongous school with the individual attention provided by DETC. (I remind you that there are more RA distance learning options than DETC.) Your implied conclusion seems to be that DETC is better than RA (at least for large brick and morter schools) But I don't see how your argument leads to that conclusion at all?

Was this your intent? Do you see that your argument was comparing apples and oranges or am I just misunderstanding your intent? Do you believe the statement that there's more distance learning options from RA than DETC? Wouldn't a more reasonable conclusion to attempt to draw from your argument be that distance learning is superior to taking huge classes at a humongous school?

 

"Reputable colleges or universities don't automatically offer quality distance learning either. As institutions push to get in on the distance boom, some haven't fully developed how they deliver distance education. Are their distance courses as good as what on-campus students receive? Are they designed with distance students in mind or just Web versions of correspondence or on-campus courses."

Source- Pam Dixon, author of "The Virtual College"

 

Great post Michael. DETC is obviously the right choice for certain students in specific situations.

 

I agree it is sad that RA schools have such a poor view of good education. I feel for that third that are rejected, just as I feel for the many students that cannot transfer credits from some of the lower tier RA/DL schools. Even though schools may accept their degrees, often they refuse to accept credits from courses passed by testing. ( Clep/ Excelsior Exams )

"Though all the schools have Regional accreditation, credits or degrees from one accredited institution are not automatically accepted by another accredited institution. The decision as to whether previous credits will be accepted by an institution rests entirely with the school itself."
Campus Free Degrees, Thorson's Guide, 9th edition, page 51

The DETC study showed that 2/3 of students applying to traditional schools were accepted. I would expect a good bit of punching around goes on at the lower tier DL/RA schools as their students try to find upper tier schools to accept their credits.
This is the problem that DL/RA students face as they discover the differences between the 6 regional accreditors.

 

cnovick: "I have been a student in both worlds. Both have their merits and both have their flaws.

DETC is not superior in any way to RA. I am getting an excellent education and DETC works for me. I have proctored exams, numerous term papers and could only transfer in 90 RA credits.

At the point I am in my career and life it works for me. I still think it has much better value in the work place than in academia.

It isn't always the best alternative. I strongly feel that new college students entering out of high school should go to RA schools. People who wish to teach and/or get graduate degrees from RA schools should go RA from the start.

DETC does have a place in distance education and is an alternative for some students."


Cehi: Excellent points. You are correct, someone has to know what he or she wants and also, know their own situations before the initiative is undertaken. Thank you.

 

I see I was a bit vague. The tragedy lies in DETC's inability to address this gap. It is their responsibility to increase the acceptance and recognition of its member schools. They're letting down the students and graduates of those schools.

 

Re: Re: DETC and RA

How do the lower tier schools- Excelsior/ COSAC/ TESC compare to Villanova- University of Richmond?

The DETC schools compare very well against lower to mid-level RA/DL schools. In some instances offering a better process of education and more learning. DETC schools will require you to earn at leat 30 semester hours of new work to receive a degree. You can't test out a degree or receive a 30 day degree based on past education.

 

So, do you think Bob Dole will unseat President Clinton?

Oh, sorry, I had a little time warp back to 1996, when the above quote was published.

 

Hi Rich:

Regarding your comment: "I see I was a bit vague. The tragedy lies in DETC's inability to address this gap. It is their responsibility to increase the acceptance and recognition of its member schools. They're letting down the students and graduates of those schools."

While I accept that it is a tragedy, I believe the gains that have been made in the last three or four years is directly attributable to DETC's efforts and those of their member schools. IT is a tough task and one that requires efforts on both sides of the table. From my experience working to gain acceptance for our students I can tell you that I have worked very hard and have been only marginally succesful because the effort was often neither welcomed or reciprocated.

As for letting down their students and graduates, I would disagree with that also. I believe it is the school's responsibility to make sure the prospective student understands the biases that exist. I will never accept that our programs (my school's) are not as good as many of the RA schools discussed in this forum. However, until we could point to a few schools willing to accept our graduates into doctoral programs one of our routine questions was "what do you plan to do with this degree?" Individuals who said they wanted to get a doctorate were advised that they should probably look at other schools. It was not an easy decision to take that route since it meant losing a prospective student, but I certainly believe it accounts in part for the good reputation that we have.

I and the DETC will continue to work for change, but it won't happen in a manner that we can point to as a moment or point in time and say that's when it changed. It will just keep happening until at some point it won't be worth discussing any longer. Of course, I am not naive enough to think that will happen while I am still working in this field!

Best,
Mary

 

I do believe that at least part of the reason for the lack of accpetance of DETC among RA institutions has to do with anti-competitive business practices. Unfortunately, as for-profit RA schools become a bigger share of the RA marketplace, I think that it is possible that this will only increase.

But, even if we were to all agee that the "tragedy" is completely outside of DETC's control, that would not affect the utility of their degrees.

 

I'm afraid I just don't see any of this gloom and doom. The DETC has been around for 77 years, and is doing just fine, adding more schools each year. 2/3 of the students who tried were able to go on to traditional schools. The acceptance of DETC accredited degrees among the general public is as high as RA/DL. There would be little difference in the private business world. The small difference would be only in the professional fields, and that also holds true for RA/DL also, been to any DL MD's lately or DL Dentists, Lawyers, taken your favorite hound to a DL Veterinarian? No, the utility of DETC degrees is good, and will get better.

 

I was just making the point that DETC (being distance only) accredits schools that provide a learning method that I think is superior in certain instances to some State RA schools from an educational facilitator perspective. A local humongous school served as a good example. (BTW, I have been informed that my examples for U of M were very conservative.) I agree with you that there are a lot of RA delivery methods. I think your general comment above is also true.

 

Regarding "the general public," this has not been measured. You can't support this statement.

Regarding academics, it certainly is not true, as John Bear's survey of admissions officials showed, and DETC's own survey supported.

Regarding employment, it certainly is not true. My research with HR managers showed a significant difference (DETC being lower), even after it was pointed out that the DETC and regional accreditors are both recognized by CHEA and the USDoE. In addition, anecdotal examples abound where degrees from RA schools are required, and those accredited by DETC will not do.

Things may or may not be getting better for DETC accreditation. I'm all for it. But the increasing acceptance of DL by the RA's might be a sign that DETC is on the way to becoming redundant and, therefore, irrelevant. Watch for more schools accredited by DETC to head off to the regional accreditors, especially those operating in certain regions.

 

I don’t know the particular terminology (traditional college or university) was chosen when citing the 2/3 figure for DETC transfer credit acceptance. My guess is that "traditional" is a euphemism for regionally accredited. The fact is, however, that among the regionally accredited colleges or universities that accept DETC credits as a matter of policy, very few, if any, can be considered traditional.

Conjecture.

Speculation,

Wild speculation and conjecture followed by non sequiturs.

”Good” is a subjective term, and “will get better” is simply wishful thinking. I do hope you are correct, however, but I’m not holding my breath.