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  1. Myoptimism

    Myoptimism New Member

    James,
    Do you really believe that passing a clep/dantes/whatever test requires no study (assuming less than competent previous knowledge?) Or that you don't have to take a test? If so, what brought you to this conclusion?

    Tony

    Also, I know that American Military University and CCHS allow 75% (aka 90 credits) to be earned through standardized tests such as clep and dsst (there always seems to be the required residency.) There are also several RA universities that are as liberal in their acceptance of these credits. Montana State, for example, has no limit (other than the residency credits) on the amount earned.
     
  2. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    There are more DL programs that are RA than those that are DETC accredited. How exactly is the DETC the "real experts" on DL?

    Do you know of a single DETC school that wouldn't trade-up to RA status?
     
  3. kf5k

    kf5k member

    The DETC was founded in 1926 under its original name (National Home Study Council). That's 77 years ago. The DETC has experience, quality, and is a truly national accreditor. All schools meet the same rigorous standards. DETC does it best because DL is all they have ever done- 77 years of Distance Education experience.
     
  4. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    You ignored my first question, so I'll repeat it: There are more DL programs that are RA than those that are DETC accredited. How exactly is the DETC the "real experts" on DL?

    You also ignored my second question, so I'll repeat it: Do you know of a single DETC school that wouldn't trade-up to RA status?
     
  5. kf5k

    kf5k member

    1- I answered your question. but I'll repeat it for you. The DETC was founded in 1926 under its original name ( National Home Study Council ). That's 77 years ago. The DETC has experience, quality, and is a truly national accreditor. All schools meet the same standards. DETC has been recognized by the Secretary of Education since 1959. DETC does distance education best because it's all they do. If you want to work hard, study books, take comprehensive tests, including proctored exams, DETC may be for you. It's not quick, easy, but is demanding.

    2- I suggest you contact each DETC school and ask them. I can't speak for others. If you have any proof that a DETC school wishes to change accreditors, please give the name?
     
  6. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    James, it seems that you're arguing that DETC is superior for distance learning compared to RA. The facts don't support that conclusion, if in fact that is your intent.
     
  7. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    There have been at least 150 posts on this board arguing about DETC in the most inane and repetitive manner possible. I simply tried to name a few names and state a few specifics. "RA" or "DETC" are simply abstractions, they are collections of real-life schools that are busy doing (or not doing) real things. It's ridiculous to try to argue about the relative value of studying at DETC and RA schools without even making an effort to look at the schools that provide the education.

    Has anyone denied that?

    True, to some extent I guess. But what should we conclude from that?

    USNews is just an imperfect and often misleading way to identify stronger and weaker programs. But the fact remains that there are any number of things that makes university programs stronger, and those things are valuable.

    Go back and look at my SFSU post:

    If a program is producing successful graduates, that says something about the credibility of the program.

    If a graduate program is producing research that catches the imagination of a whole discipline, that's valuable.

    Teachers winning professional recognition for their teaching suggests that teaching is probably decent.

    Research facilities are important in many graduate programs.

    Giving graduate students publication opportunities can be tremendously important.

    Faculty authors say something.

    Creativity, innovation and unusual programs create intellectual excitement.

    Participating in and hosting professional meetings and conferences indicates participation and productivity.

    Research collaborations. Holding offices in professional organizations. Awards. Grant funding.

    OK, I accept that not all graduate students need all of those kind of things. I graduated from a fairly weak program myself. It met my needs rather well, and gave me an accredited piece of paper that may or may not have some value in my life down the road.

    But it is a mistake to let well-meaning political-correctness lead us to conclude that none of these indicators of a strong graduate program have any importance or that graduate programs that offer little are just the same as those that offer a lot.

    I have never suggested that DETC programs are worthless or that they lack utility to their students. I never suggested that (any? many? most?) DETC programs are worse than the weaker RA programs. (The newsgroup pinheads have put that in my mouth and have me saying it, but in reality I've reached no conclusion on that matter.)

    All I've done is suggest that few DETC programs seem to offer the kind of advantages offered by some of the stronger RA graduate programs. I don't think that anyone can successfully dispute that point.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 4, 2003
  8. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    Thanks for the common sense, Bill. Nobody is less likely than I to say that RA should hold a monopoly, but an argument trending in the reverse direction--that DETC should hold a monopoly on DL--is really off-base. I will happily accept any RA, any NA, legitimate ForeignA, and certain CA-approved at face value (as tho my acceptance mattered).:p I'll even accept the rare unA school if I can be shown really good work and some sort of academic integrity for the place. However, this faux-populist whingeing about RA not matching the "real world" is just silly: most of the real world of legitimate American DL higher education is RA. The insinuation that DETC requires real work and RA doesn't is beyond belief. Again, Bill, thanks for tying down this thread.
     
  9. c.novick

    c.novick New Member

    I am sure James will correct me if I am mistaken. I didn't read his information as DETC is better than RA. It most certainly is not.

    I think that his basic theme was that DETC universities are legitimate accredited universities and have utility for distance students.
     
  10. kf5k

    kf5k member

    If a school provides distance education only, the DETC would be best handling accreditation. If residential and distance education are both available it should be RA. Obviously all residential schools should be in the hands of RA's, since that is the vast majority of what they do, and are good at it. DETC does distance education only, and does a fine job of it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 4, 2003
  11. obecve

    obecve New Member

    Bill,
    My comments were not directed at you, but rather the general theme of the thread. I actually agree with most of what you said. I was only making a point that DETC has a valuable place in the market. SOmetimes the nature of these threads is to become so negative toward a particular stream of thought as to completely devalue it. As I read this thread, it seemed to me it had moved along that route.

    I agree that one should seek the best program possible given one's individual circumstances. My point is that DETC could and should fit within some of the possibilities. Not all people need degrees where research, publication, professional societies, or other issues are important. What they need is permission to enter a particular job or a particular profession. The rest of their advancement may be up to them.

    My own MA was from a very small school, not highly rated, yet it has been a key to much of my employment success. It served as the permission slip to get into the work place and my perfomance served as the key to advancement. After a while, my degree had little bearing on the next opportunity. In the beginning I did not get the most elite jobs, but now am in a postion where I am a natinal leader in my profession. I settled for a degree from a school I did not know, yet it proved to be very important and a key to my success.

    I was not making the point that DETC was equal to RA, I was not making some statement on political correctness. My only point was DETC is viable and reasonable in many situations and that DETC has a positive side in this conversation.
     
  12. kf5k

    kf5k member

    The DETC schools have a very important part to play in the world of distance education. The education is as good as many of the RA/DL schools. It's not Harvard quality, but it doesn't cost $25,000 a year either. If you want a good education that will meet almost all needs, DETC will work. Its utility is slightly less than RA but the future seems to be very bright for the DETC and its schools.
     
  13. c.novick

    c.novick New Member

    I think that is an accurate statement. I agree with you James.
     
  14. DaveHayden

    DaveHayden New Member

    And to throw in the counterpoint I would strongly disagree. For most people the RA choice is simply a much better, even smarter, choice. Despite James' opinion DETC is great, we simply don't know the future. DETC may be around or may disappear. It may continue to slowly build stature or it might make mistake after mistake and become the lowest common denominator in accreditation. Heck the same might happen to RA. It is just much less likely. The real key is that for some things DETC is ok. For others it will not work at all. If you know exactly what you will be doing in 5, 10, 15 years and know that DETC will fit your needs go for it. If instead you are like the rest of us and must plan for contingencies go the safe route with RA.
     
  15. kf5k

    kf5k member

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 5, 2003
  16. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    I'm sure that there's more RA distance learning options than DETC options.

    RA has greater utility than DETC.
     
  17. tcnixon

    tcnixon Active Member

     
  18. Kirkland

    Kirkland Member

    Personally, I think DETC represents a learning paradigm superior, yes I said it, superior to many State RA schools. Why, you ask??? I say this in the context of the large State schools, take University of Maryland for instance. 50,000-60,000 full-time students, some lectures 200-300 students. Talk about mills!! I think this is a terrible model for learning and why so many graduate without being educated. I personally think the one-on-one potential of distance learning is FAR more effective.
     
  19. Jeff Hampton

    Jeff Hampton New Member

    Uhhm... That's not what DETC says.

    From "The Student's Guide to Transfer Credit" published by the DETC:

    "Unfortunately for students seeking to transfer their previous work, the culture of credit transfer at some traditional colleges and universities has not kept pace with the rapid changes with today's mobile students. Many universities still insist that they will accept academic credits or degrees only from institutions that are regionally accredited. The culture of "regionally accredited only" can lead to frustration for students who choose to earn their credits at nationally accredited institutions, such as those accredited by the Accrediting Commission of the DETC."

    Disagree with the policies as much as you want, but even DETC doesn't try to pretend that they don't exist.

    http://www.detc.org/downloads/StudentsGuidetoTransferCredit.PDF
     
  20. Dennis Ruhl

    Dennis Ruhl member

    DETC schools are well within the range of competency of R/A schools.

    DETC requires proctored exams, limits transfers in and credits granted for experience. The Big 3 simply would not qualify for DETC accreditation.

    These requirements do not make DETC superior but they certainly do not make it any worse.
     

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