DBA vs International PhD???

Discussion in 'Business and MBA degrees' started by CT2389, Jan 18, 2020.

  1. CT2389

    CT2389 New Member

    Hi Everyone!

    I am interested in transitioning into Academia in 5-10 years. Currently, I work as a Risk Manager and do not want to quit my job. I have a family and there's just no way I could live on a PhD stipend. I am looking at Sacred Heart University DBA program as it looks like its more research orientated and quite a few of their graduates went into Academia after the program.

    Also, I am looking at the International School of Business in Paris, this would be a PhD program but it is not AACSB accredited. ISM PhD program can we done mostly online with some classes in NYC. Any advice on which one would help me achieve my goal in the next 5-10 years?

    Thanks everyone!
  2. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Well-Known Member

    I'd definitely go with Sacred Heart's DBA. Their school is AACSB accredited, which is favored for many business faculty positions. I don't know how favorable a foreign degree is when it is completed by someone who lives in the U.S. While a Ph.D. is more prestigious, in my opinion, not all Ph.Ds are equal. I'd hire a DBA from a top U.S. school before hiring say a Ph.D. from a foreign university* or a for-profit online U.S. school. I see that the DBA requires a dissertation, so that's good. You could also publish one or two articles and attend conferences to make yourself more competitive.

    *Assuming the person is living in the U.S. and clearly completed the degree by distance. If the person is a native of that country and completed the degree face-to-face, I wouldn't have a problem.
  3. Vonnegut

    Vonnegut Well-Known Member

    They list on their website that they are ACBSP. There's some great reads online, including this site, about the differences between ACBSP and AACSB, would encourage you to read up.
  4. Vonnegut

    Vonnegut Well-Known Member

    What area of risk management are you working in? Assume that if you're in that field, your workplace will entirely pay for the program or costs are a non-issue. Without looking further into it, the cost of the Sacred Heart DBA would be the primary thing that I'd be concerned with. However if cost is not an issue and you can attend the executive style sessions, I'd certainly consider it. Under those circumstances, while Sacred Heart is certainly not a top business school, it is respectable, and ISM is no HEC, IE, or LBS and towards the bottom of the European business school rankings.
  5. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    None of the above. Seriously. It isn't about the prestige of the degree or the form of accreditation. It's about the process.

    Colleges and universities, as a rule, don't want practitioners, even if they've obtained a doctorate.

    Doing a doctorate from that perspective means you won't be a part of the academic world as you apprentice through your doctorate. You won't be a TA, you won't teach classes, you won't present at symposia. You won't publish papers as part of a department.

    It's not that it is not done. It's that it isn't regularly done. And it's all that other stuff, not just the degree, that will put you in a position to be routinely rejected by dozens of schools like other academic applicants. And if you have a unique situation where they want you, that other stuff won't matter anyway.

    Take a look at the literature--trade and scholarly. Lots of articles about making the transition from academia to practice, but almost nothing written about going the other way. There's a reason for that.

    My advice would be to develop a relationship with a school, even get a job there, then work on getting the kind of position you seek while you're earning the doctorate they want you to take.
  6. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    If I understand you correctly, you want to get a doctoral degree so that you can become an adjunct instructor. My suggestion is that you double check the numbers going into your ROI calculations and then choose the least expensive program that you like. If you're anchored to your job then that means there are a limited number of university employment targets for your post-doc future. Look at their instructors and check their degrees, That's a clue for your choice.
  7. Steve Levicoff

    Steve Levicoff Well-Known Member

    First, you note that the school is ISM - this is the International School of Management, not of Business. And it has been discussed in several threads over the years here at DI. Like https://www.degreeinfo.com/index.php?threads/opinions-on-international-school-of-mgnt.21089/ and https://www.degreeinfo.com/index.php?threads/ism-international-school-of-management.34845/.

    For what it's worth, I think there's something sleazy about this school. And while I can't pin it down - and have neither the time nor interest in doing so - I've learned to trust my gut over the years. With all the legit programs out there, I would question why you would even consider one in Paris - we've seen too many questionable programs there in the past few years.

    Is it the romance of Paris? Go watch a Maurice Chevalier movie - preferably Gigi or Can-Can. Or, if musicals are not your thing, try 1963's Charade, with Cary Grant and Audrey Hepburn - in the public domain, so the whole thing is on YouTube.

    But to compare an American school with a potential Paris rip-off is absurd.

  8. AsianStew

    AsianStew Moderator Staff Member

    You need to ask yourself a few questions: I guess you're in CT or NY? What's your budget? Does the programs you're looking into must have AACSB or with ACBSP suffice? What do you want to do in the next few years? Just teach or are you starting a business, going into consulting, moving up the chain?
  9. CT2389

    CT2389 New Member

    Wow, so many responses thanks! I will try to cover them all. I am an alumni of SHU, so I get a discount and my job will pay up to 28k. My goal is to be a full time professor for my second career. Currently I am 29, I figure transitioning in my mid 30’s.

    I have looked at a lot of job posting in the CT/ NY area and they all mention PhD or DBA with concentration in Finance.
  10. CT2389

    CT2389 New Member

    Oops sorry! Yes school of Management
  11. CT2389

    CT2389 New Member

    CT and I want to teach.
  12. CT2389

    CT2389 New Member

    Credit risk, my employer will pay up to 28k
  13. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    This needs to be said every time: you will likely not enter academia that way.

    Just because the listing asks for a degree that you can obtain does NOT mean it will get you the job. It's not at all that simple. Or do you intend to enroll on-campus full-time?
  14. Steve Levicoff

    Steve Levicoff Well-Known Member

    Rich is quite correct, CT2389 - I hate to burst your bubble, but you're in a fantasy world. No one, regardless of their credentials, simply walks into a full-time professorship. Academia has changed drastically, and today one starts as an adjunct, teaching a token course or two (perhaps at more than one school) and may eventually get a full-time gig after a number of years and a solid scholarly publication record. And be one dynamite teacher, since most people who have a teaching fantasy CTWS (can't teach worth shit). And have something better than a Parisian mickey-mouse Ph.D. or a doctorate du jour D.B.A.

    But "transitioning" in your mid-30's to a full-time professorship??? Never gonna happen. Anywhere.

    Um, enjoy your fantasy. But if that's all you've got, save your money.

  15. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    This heavily depends on the state of the job market in any given year. In my experience, market conditions when I first tried to get a job (2008) and now are night and day. Not quite sure about topic starter's particular subfield, but Finance is supposed to be quite in demand. Lack of traditional academic experiences could be remedied, in theory, by adjuncting and publishing. Someone in Finance r at least Business academia would be a better guide, though.

    I'd have to agree with Levicoff here, though. ISM just feels too obscure for academia. I'd stick with something more familiar. Sacred Heart or maybe British schools. Eg. I semi-seriously looked at Heriot-Watt's program.
    CT2389 likes this.
  16. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Well-Known Member

    OP, please don't listen to what these negative Nancies have to do say. While transitioning is not the typical way to enter academia full-time, it is certainly not impossible to do so. There are always exceptions to everything. You probably won't get a job at say an R1 or even R2 school, but I'm sure you could at an R3 school or 2-year college. Some of the members on here are very vocal, but much of what they say is nonsensical. They are stuck in the 70s and fail to realize that we Millennials are disrupting everything that used to be typical.
    CT2389 likes this.
  17. Steve Levicoff

    Steve Levicoff Well-Known Member

    Why, Chris, you're the last person from whom I would have expected such a homophobic comment. Were you snapping your fingers in a circle when you wrote it?
    I believe I've said that at least a dozen times over the last year. Of course there are exceptions. But one can't presume that the OP is one of them.
    Ah, such blind faith. The question is, can the OP teach? That's something you can't learn. Yes, you can take a course in pedagogy, but it's like playing a musical instrument - you either have it or you don't.
    But we have doctorate degrees, and you don't. Perhaps you will in another year or two, and will eventually attain a status that equals or even surpasses us. But bro, you ain't there yet.
    Nice try, but I didn't even start college until quite a bit later than the 70's. All of this generational hoopla is meaningless, as evidenced by the notion that so many more people are voting for septuagenarians out in Iowa (Joe, Bernie, and Elizabeth) instead of the youngsters (Pete, Kamala, and Cory).

    Do you want to win the game? Then keep in mind that, if you're lucky, one day you will get to be my age. And then you'll have some punky kid who is the equivalent of his or her generation's current millennials who will hand you the same kind of manure. Remember, what goes around comes around.

    All that said, I'm glad that you're one of the exceptions. You took a shady past (online NA school), parlayed it to a credible MBA (major Catholic university, albeit foreign), added an RA master's from a major state university, and may actually have an RA Ph.D. from a major university in hand by the time you're 30. You have learned how to work the system, but remember that you did it with our help. You know, the boomers... :p
  18. CT2389

    CT2389 New Member

    Hmm...I think this positing is getting to a place where it’s not helpful anymore. I completely understand my goal is extremely hard to do. My “fantasy” land is not impossible as I know of countless professors who have transitioned into academia. Why is Steve Levicoff making this political? Makes no sense, keep those opinions to yourself.

    Also Steve Levicoff I feel bad for your students if this is the negative attitude you project onto someone who is trying to make a life change. YES I know this is difficult, yes I know you need more than just a degree. Where did I ever say I’m going to just skip adjunct teaching? I said my end goal is to be a full-time professor. Your arrogance is laughable honestly, you think you’re better than Chrisjm because of a doctorate degree? Get over yourself, you’re not special.

    Anyways, thank you everyone for your help! I know feel like the DBA is my best option while I continue to work in the field.
  19. CT2389

    CT2389 New Member

    Thanks for the positive thoughts man, I know it’s a hard journey but it’s not impossible. Thanks!
    chrisjm18 likes this.
  20. CT2389

    CT2389 New Member

    my guy, some of us work in the field and actually get experience rather than just talking about it. A DBA is for people who actually work in the field you sit and write about. Have some respect you’re not special in any way.

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