California Coast University or Pacific Western University(California)

http://www.gdnet.ucla.edu/gasaa/admissions/CRITERIA.HTM

Those mean very little. Celebrities, authors and various other individuals with life experience, special exams, etc. get in to good schools all the time.
There are so many loopholes that there is always a way in for anybody. If not, I can get my certificate in public administration from any old community college, after all other efforts have been exhausted.

 

Brandon,

We are not that surprised so good luck with your Cal Coast choice. If it gets you into grad school at UCLA or Cal State let us know.

John

 

Ok. Really searching this board and usenet have been a big help. It certainly steered me away from some earlier flirtations i had with honolulu university and pacific western university among others.

 

I'll show you three.....Thomas Edison State College, Charter Oak State College, and Excelsior College. It's entirely possible to earn an accredited degree through any of them for less than $5000, using testing and portfolio.

I also have to refute your fantasy that professors at RA schools are hired based on CCU degrees. In every case I've seen where a CCU grad was teaching at an RA institution, the CCU degree was a doctorate, and a doctorate wasn't required for the job (other teachers of equal rank had only Master's degrees). I think it's more accurate to say these people were hired in spite of their CCU degrees, not because of them.

I'll say it one last time....you're far, far better off with a degree from an "obscure" RA school than CCU. I have my B.A. from an "obscure" RA school (Curry College in Milton, MA), and besides earning me a hefty pay increase, I've never had a problem with acceptance, and was accepted to all four RA Master's programs to which I applied.

It seems that you're going to enroll in CCU in spite of the tidal wave of evidence that it's an inferior and dangerous option. I sincerely wish you well, because you're certainly going to need it.


Bruce

 

brandon

What exactly is wrong with the name Athabasca University.

Athabasca, Athabaska, Athapasca - other possible variations:

-large river in Alberta, Canada about half a mile from where I am sitting.
-large lake in northern Alberta
-town in northern Alberta and home of Athabasca University
-name of a group of native bands in northern Alberta and the Northwest Territories
-a native language group including these bands plus the Navaho and other tribes in the western United States.

Athabasca University was set up by the government of Alberta in the early seventies to make affordable (really cheap) education to those unable to attend traditional universities.

Government funding cutbacks and its own success have rendered it no longer cheap, many of its programs are now quite expensive. This is particularly true of its MBA program which is aimed at business people working for corporations with altogether too much spare cash. It's primary goal is that of a cash cow.

Being a provincial (read state) university, its programs are certainly as demanding as any and probably tougher than many.

 

CCU is a Diploma Mill, It looks like California is looking to shut them down, Article in the OCR.

California Pacific, Frederick Taylor, Kensington also targeted, article uses Oregon State law as the model wanting only DETC as a minimum

Make sure you get your degree before they close shop, or you might just want to buy a replacement degree for $79 at a local www web site.

A state Senate candidate (Jerry Tingle) was busted today in the Tuscaloosa news, FBI calling the school a diploma mill, another one bites the dust....


Thomas Edision is sounding better by the minute

 

Bear in mind, of course, that CCU is a legally operating school within California. In a diploma mill, the prospective "student" is sold a diploma without actually completing any work. This is not the case for Cal Coast. Most folks who have looked at the curriculum have stated that it seems light-weight, but that is an entirely different issue. When I looked at their doctoratal program, it was clearly sub-standard to me, but a significant amount of work was involved in the process (albeit not at the RA level).


Tom Nixon

 

I don't think the fact that they require some work is enough to say they aren't a degree mill. If a business, that is what CCU is, will give a degree in exchange for a certain number of open book multiple choice unproctored tests that is a degree mill to me. It is not college level or likely even high school level work. If one wants to be careful you could use the term "near Degree mill". Remember many degree mills require some kind of low level work to skirt the issue. "But, it was a REALLY good book report!"

 

Please note that I used the term "diploma mill". Most folks differentiate between the two with the amount of work required.

Diploma mill = no work required. Please send your check now!

Degree mill = some work required, but not of RA quality. You can also send your check now!


HR Pro was calling Cal Coast a diploma mill. It is not. I would not even call it a degree mill because having looked at the courses offered and having seen some of the curriculum, it does have minimal standards. Granted, those standards would never get it RA, but I don't think CCU cares much about that anyways.


Tom Nixon

 

Hi Tom

Thanks for your response. I see your point. Diploma Mill is a term I have only heard amoung those interested in distance learning. It is a term I don't really care for. To most people, degree mill and diploma mill will have the same definition. "An unaccredited institution, almost always a business, that provides degrees in exchange for cash and no significant work." I think it is fair to call CCU this or, as I noted before, if a person wants to be especially precise a "near degree mill". Using diploma mill just confusing many people.

 

This is what I think

Gentlemen,
I find it appalling that a group of educated and respected scholars would be so biased and one sided in regards to CCU. I cant believe that so many would offer bad or inaccurate information in regards to the school.
It has been said here that a degrees from CCU would not be accepted in the business world. I’m here to say that many business do accept the degree for career enhancement, and some even pay for it. How do I know this? I’m currently employed by a large company in the HR office. Issues like these are dealt with on a daily basis. In addition, my company has paid for my schooling at CCU. However there are many companies outside and inside of California who might insist on a RA degree, but there are many who would accept the CCU degree. That is the conscious decision a CCU student needs to make.
In regards to the education offered by the school, I can honestly and sincerely state that it is at the university level. It has been challenging and comprehensive. The text books that are required to complete the study guides are at the university level. How do I know that? I get the texts through my public library via interlibrary loans. The books always arrive from the campus libraries of California state universities and places like the University of Mobile. My wife is currently attending the local community college and I’m shocked by the simplicity of the curricula and the exams given. Many of the classes don’t give tests, but take home papers and projects. She usually finishes them in an hour and receives A’s and B’s.
It has been stated here that the study guides are multiple choice with the chapter and page of the question given. It is true that the chapter is given but I can assure you, the pages are not. In addition, just because the guides are multiple choice doesn’t make them easy. Many questions are based on the understanding and knowledge of the material. You cant just “look up” a key word or topic. Every study guide I have completed I had to study, not just read, the texts from cover to cover. On many occasions I had to call the school for assistance, (which they promptly gave). If anyone here thinks they can easily pass accounting or business law at CCU by skimming they will be sorely mistaken.
The faculty of CCU all have there degrees from RA schools, and you do not find the majority of them with their PhD’s from CCU as occurs with infamous institutions like Century U. As for graduate students finishing there doctorate in nine months, I know of many PhD’s who have completed it in a year at RA schools.
Many times the issue of cost has arisen here. What many of the posters have failed to inform Brandon is that many of the RA distance ed. schools require that one already have 60 credits of general ed. completed. One can complete the 60 credits with those schools, but the tuition will increase. CCU offers a straight forward pricing plan which many people find attractive and easy to understand, but one is not “buying” the degree by paying a flat fee. Personally, I find it to be a brilliant marketing tool. Just because the mills do that does not classify the school as a mill, diploma or degree. I hope in the future the RA school begin to offer prices and straight forward costs as CCU does.
And finally, I find it much more light weight in “CLEPing out” with some of the RA schools than studying and completing the study guides given by CCU. It’s not Stanford, but neither are the “big three”.
All I ask is that all sides of the story are given. Sometimes the regulars (who I respect) sound so extremist here.
Also, I hope I will not be blacklisted for my views. I would like to contribute here from time to time. It seems that membership is taken away or blocked if one upsets the administrators, but we will never know if I’m to be silenced.

Michael

P.S. I too am interested in this article in the OCR that HR PRO has inferred to. I’m glad Dr. Bear asked first (who I have great respect for), ‘cause I’m sure there will be some kind of response.
MB

 

I've never seen anyone else make this distinction, except for Levicoff. The terms "diploma mill" and "degree mill" are used interchangeably in the literature. While I appreciate the distinction--a degree mill hands out degrees left and right with a low regard for standards, while a diploma mill sells pieces of paper pretending to be degrees--it is a fine line that is not drawn elsewhere.

Bear has had more than 25 years and 14 editions to make this distinction. IIRC, he has not. (But I could be wrong.)

 

Re: This is what I think

 

Re: Re: This is what I think

Capt. Douglas,

As prior enlisted I hold you in high regard, please don’t disappoint me.
It is true that many of the points I made are my opinion, as are many of the other posts here, (including yours).
I will try to answer your questions to the best of my ability.
I believe the information given about CCU has been inaccurate in regards to
A. the tests are multiple choice with only two to three alternatives for possible answers instead of the traditional four to five.
B. the pages of where the answers can be found are given
C. that the tests are not difficult
D. that RA schools don’t have tests that are of a similar format.
IMHO many of the RA courses that I have taken with exams have been multiple choice format. That and written essay type.
E. that the courses are not of university level

As to the data collected regarding acceptability, you are correct, it is a small sample, but I am not doing a dissertation on it either. However, I have been to many trade shows and seminars with other HR staff in my market, and many of them would accept a CCU degree. This of course is from informal conversations I have had with them.
Out of curiosity how are you collecting the data regarding the acceptance of non RA degrees in the business world? I hope you are presenting the surveys in a manner that would not make outcome lopsided. What is your control?
IMHO I can understand why the registrars of accredited schools would not accept a non RA degree. I think there is a protectionist mentality amongst them. Kinda like a social club, that only accepts "their own". That is just my opinion.
You are correct in regards to comparing CCU to Century and that *some * of the faculty (a minority) hold degrees from un accredited institutions, but I also think it is wrong to call CCU a mill. I think as un accredited approved California institutions go, it is at the top.
As for the PhD’s who have finished in a year, I will ask if I can use their names. I can assure you though that they are alum's of California state schools.
I too was surprised how long it took them. But apart from that, I doubt any doctoral student of CCU finishes the coursework and dissertation in nine months.
I too am biased, as I am a student of CCU, but I like to listen all of the sides of the story and keep an open mind. I honestly do think that CCU is a good alternative. That’s all. Just my point of view. The perception I often get is that very few here are moderate in their advice. It is "RA" or nothing. not even DETC!

As for blacklisting, why cant I use my original login name of "Sgtbroderick"? Every time I have tried It went to a screen of I do not have permission. This occurred a long time ago, and Chip even hinted that I was possibly a rouge element here. I have e mailed many time but with no answers.
I just came to that conclusion, but maybe I'm wrong.

Michael

:Gentlemen,
I find it appalling that a group of educated and respected scholars would be so biased and one sided in regards to CCU. I cant believe that so many would offer bad or inaccurate information in regards to the school.
It has been said here that a degrees from CCU would not be accepted in the business world. I’m here to say that many business do accept the degree for career enhancement, and some even pay for it. How do I know this? I’m currently employed by a large company in the HR office. Issues like these are dealt with on a daily basis. In addition, my company has paid for my schooling at CCU. However there are many companies outside and inside of California who might insist on a RA degree, but there are many who would accept the CCU degree. That is the conscious decision a CCU student needs to make.
In regards to the education offered by the school, I can honestly and sincerely state that it is at the university level. It has been challenging and comprehensive. The text books that are required to complete the study guides are at the university level. How do I know that? I get the texts through my public library via interlibrary loans. The books always arrive from the campus libraries of California state universities and places like the University of Mobile. My wife is currently attending the local community college and I’m shocked by the simplicity of the curricula and the exams given. Many of the classes don’t give tests, but take home papers and projects. She usually finishes them in an hour and receives A’s and B’s.
It has been stated here that the study guides are multiple choice with the chapter and page of the question given. It is true that the chapter is given but I can assure you, the pages are not. In addition, just because the guides are multiple choice doesn’t make them easy. Many questions are based on the understanding and knowledge of the material. You cant just “look up” a key word or topic. Every study guide I have completed I had to study, not just read, the texts from cover to cover. On many occasions I had to call the school for assistance, (which they promptly gave). If anyone here thinks they can easily pass accounting or business law at CCU by skimming they will be sorely mistaken.
The faculty of CCU all have there degrees from RA schools, and you do not find the majority of them with their PhD’s from CCU as occurs with infamous institutions like Century U. As for graduate students finishing there doctorate in nine months, I know of many PhD’s who have completed it in a year at RA schools.
Many times the issue of cost has arisen here. What many of the posters have failed to inform Brandon is that many of the RA distance ed. schools require that one already have 60 credits of general ed. completed. One can complete the 60 credits with those schools, but the tuition will increase. CCU offers a straight forward pricing plan which many people find attractive and easy to understand, but one is not “buying” the degree by paying a flat fee. Personally, I find it to be a brilliant marketing tool. Just because the mills do that does not classify the school as a mill, diploma or degree. I hope in the future the RA school begin to offer prices and straight forward costs as CCU does.
And finally, I find it much more light weight in “CLEPing out” with some of the RA schools than studying and completing the study guides given by CCU. It’s not Stanford, but neither are the “big three”.
All I ask is that all sides of the story are given. Sometimes the regulars (who I respect) sound so extremist here. Also, I hope I will not be blacklisted for my views. I would like to contribute here from time to time. It seems that membership is taken away or blocked if one upsets the administrators, but we will never know if I’m to be silenced.

Michael

P.S. I too am interested in this article in the OCR that HR PRO has inferred to. I’m glad Dr. Bear asked first (who I have great respect for), ‘cause I’m sure there will be some kind of response.
MB

 

Re: Re: Re: This is what I think

Hi Broderick

The crux of the problem is that CCU is giving credit for open book unproctored multiple choice exams. That is clearly degree mill behavior. You ask what is stopping a student at an RA University from passing notes? The test proctor! Could a class at an RA institution have an open book take home test? Yes it is possible. How many classes in an RA program might be this way one? Would this ever happen in an RA MBA program? Doubtful. When you were asking Randall about the CCU program you asked what would keep someone from completing the test and skipping the course and book? A great question. As Randell stated little other than CCU requires you to wait 9 months before it will award the, ahem, "degree".

 

BA in 4 weeks

Dave,
I have been a fan of the discussion board for almost a year now, and I know there are many believers of the BA in 4 weeks. Why is that considered legit, yet a California degree can only be awarded after 9 months according to the law?
Also, I did not ask Russell that question, but I know for a fact that one cannot "skip" a course and successfully complete the program.
As for the testing, I have never been in an MBA program at a RA or DETC school, so I have no idea. But as for undergraduate work, well, I don’t think I need to explain that again.

Michael

BTW, when you were in school, you NEVER saw anyone cheat with the proctor in the room and get away with it? Sadly it happens all the time, and that’s where personal ethics come into play. I have some Halls here for that throat problem if you like!

MB

 

Re: BA in 4 weeks

Hi Michael

Like others I think Lawrie is being optimistic in that title, but some one who is very bright could finish a COSC, TESC or EC degree very quickly. Tom Head, Lawrie Miller and Rich Douglas are examples. You ask what makes that more legit? All of the tests are proctored. Two of the three institutions are state colleges and all three are over seen by RA accreditors. A CCU test is overseen by no one and as you asked last year there is nothing at all to prevent cheating in the least.

I am not sure what you mean by that. As you asked before and Randall pointed out it is possible to skip the course, ie skip the reading, and just take the test or pay someone to finish the test. Are their any other assignments? Any essay tests at all? Any paper or projects at all? Is there a study group of any kind? Is there any proof to CCU that a specific student has down any work other than the multiple choise tests?

Micheal, you seem like a bright person. I think you realize any legitimate institution offering college credit or degrees does not offer unproctored, take home, multiple choice exams on any regular basis. Is it possible in one course? Sure but we both know that is not the same thing.

Nope. 12 years of public school education and about 2 years worth of classes at RA institutions and not once. Does it happen at times? I am sure it does. On any regular basis in a proctored enviroment? Not likely. In an unproctored enviroment? Probably more than 50% of the time.

Thanks. Definately a good pun. And I may need them after reading some of the remarks that have been made about what people think college level work is.

P.S. I am a little confused. You were a Sgt but now are a civilian? Do you have any undergraduate degree? Your company offers tuition reimbursement for unaccredited degree programs? Is it large or small and what general industry is it in? Both Barrington and CCU? Last year you weren't in HR but this year you are? After reading this board you chose CCU over other more legitimate and accepted institutions? For what reasons?

Good Luck in your path
Dave Hayden

 

Im still in.

Dave,
I didn't ask Randall that, It must be another poster, but I see your point. As for cheating, well, a person who does that is a dirt bag, IMHO.
Do I believe that it is possible for a legit school to offer tests in this manner, yes I do. The proof, I believe, is in the pudding, i.e. how well does one apply it to their work.
50%!? ouch, think that might be too much. We need to have more faith than that.

I'm sorry, I wasn't clear, I'm in the Marine Corps Reserve, so when I made the inquiries last year, I was working in my civilian job, as I continue to today. But as you already know, once a Marine, always a Marine.
I have an AA from South America, working on my BS at CCU, then on to my MBA. Plus lots of executive education, (Harvard anyone?)
I decided against Barrington after careful research, and thanks to the people here.
I'm in the casino business,
and honestly, I really liked CCU. As a California resident, the school is close by and I felt it was the best for my needs.

I'm an open book people, I have nothing to hide.

Michael

 

Re: Re: Re: This is what I think

Actually, if we wanted to ban you, we would have banned you long ago, since you've registered not one, but THREE different logins, which is clearly prohibited in the terms of service to which you agree when you register.

Instead, we kept the login that had the most posts, and suspended the other two. And we've emailed you to this effect.

We don't silence people for unpopular or non-mainstream views. We do suspend posting privileges for those who violate our terms of service, particularly in regard to shilling, personal attacks, and trolling.

So let's not try to create a red herring here, OK?

 

Re: Re: BA in 4 weeks

The "my employer paid for it" defense that Michael offers is standard millspeak. La Salle, Columbia State, Monticello, and others also proudly listed the companies (including, unfortunately, a number of Fortune 500 companies, and the US military and various government agencies) that had paid for fraudulent degrees from those programs.

Keep in mind that most HR departments in big companies have some lackey that's processing the tuition reimbursement, and many of these folks haven't a clue about accreditation, quality, or even the existence of fraudulent and/or substandard schools.

A transcript comes in, it looks on the face of it to be legitimate, and the lackey submits the paperwork for payment. That's a *far* cry from an active endorsement by a senior HR official or company president that Cal Coast is a good program. Like all of the other millspeak defenses offered, this one doesn't hold any water when put under scrutiny. If you called 100 employers at random who had paid for Cal Coast degrees and asked someone in management who understood the issues whether it was an intentional decision or an oversight. I'd be willing to bet that a very large percentage of the employers would call it an oversight.

The sad thing is that, as usually happens when a handful of apologists for less-than-wonderful programs show up and start shilling their programs, the shills inadvertently provide much further support for the majority view while trying to defend the program.

In spite of Levicoff's view that Cal Coast is a mill, I had generally put it in the category of "decent unaccredited" until now. But having read all of the lackluster stuff put forth by the Cal Coast apologists, it's now exceptionally clear to me that the program is quite obviously substandard, and I now feel more confident than ever in recommending that people avoid it like the plague.

Yes, it's legal in the state of California. But we also know that CA approval, at this point, means almost nothing in terms of meaningful oversight. Look at all the crappy CA programs in existence... it's only very slightly better than the situation in Hawaii or Louisiana or Montana.