California Coast University or Pacific Western University(California)

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by brandon, May 23, 2002.

  1. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Re: Test Failed??

    It is not legal in some states to use a degree from K-W. The fact is that it IS less than a legit and legal school.
  2. Ian Anderson

    Ian Anderson Active Member

    Re: Test Failed??

    Hi RJT,
    Can you explain why KWUs administrative office address is
    Administrative Offices
    Kennedy-Western University
    501 Marin Street
    Thousand Oaks, CA 91320

    yet they do not accept California residents?
    (per their web page)

  3. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

  4. The old addage about arguing with a pig seems to fit nicely into this thread. But "rising to the bait" is almost irresistable... akin to looking at the accident as you drive by. Nevertheless, I'm going to try.

    So, to those who insist on buying into scams like K-W and the CCUs, I say: Good on ya'll. You fill a valuable niche in the global ecosystem, namely:


    The justice system just wouldn't be a viable employer without you, and frankly, I'm not especially well-qualified to do anything else that'll pay me this kind of money. So, thank you. I thank you. My creditors thank you. And most of all, the confidence artists of the world thank you. With gullibility like that, they'll be eating well for YEARS to come.

  5. RJT

    RJT New Member

    Please read from a well known source regarding DL the site:

    Note that KWU does not cliam to be accredited, but it does the sanctioned authority to award degrees ... Also THE CHAIRMAN HOLDS AN UNACCREDITED DEGREE.

    Indeed, the web site of a US commission on higher education shows that the chairman holds a postgraduate qualification from one of that state's licensed universities.

    Institutes that do not have such accreditation can exist legally by meeting the state requirements, and are known as "state licensed" or "state approved" universities.

    Accreditation in the USA:

    The American approach to higher educational quality assurance causes some confusion in the DL world and is explained briefly here, since "accreditation" has a particular meaning. You are encouraged to follow some of the resources links later in the FAQs to further understand the meaning of accreditation in the USA, and also the other approaches that are used around the world.

    As mentioned above, American universities are authorized at state level, however universities holding what is known as "Regional Accreditation" are given exemption from meeting the requirements of each state that they operate in. The US federal government Department of Education (DoEd) also recognizes those universities holding Regional Accreditation as being eligible for federal student financial assistance, as also are courses that meet listed professional accrediting bodies and those holding accreditation of the Distance Education Training Council (DETC).

    Institutes that do not have such accreditation can exist legally by meeting the state requirements, and are known as "state licensed" or "state approved" universities. States also exempt institutes with a religious charter and offering theological degree programs as a constitutional right.

    American universities holding Regional Accreditation (RA) will normally only accept students or faculty from similarly accredited universities, or holding qualifications from US DoEd-recognized accrediting bodies. DETC-accredited qualifications can also be acceptable to RA universities, but you are advised to check program by program. Many, if not most, professional bodies and states will only allow licenses to practice a profession for those holding qualifications from such recognized accrediting bodies.

    This is due to the existence of un-recognized (by the US DoEd) accrediting bodies, which can in some cases give rise to misleading statements or even fraudulent activities - hence the "Buyer Beware" statement at the beginning of these FAQs.

    In the American environment, your choice could then be between (i) an institute or course with accreditation recognized by the US DoEd; (ii) a state-licensed or state-approved (as in California) university meeting state requirements but not holding recognized accreditation; or (iii) a university with a religious exemption from state licensing.

    Selection of an American program must be made carefully by the prospective DL student, depending on the use to which the earned qualification will be put. In general terms, a degree from a university or course with recognized accreditation will be the wisest choice in terms of acceptability and transferability.

    American State-Licensed Universities
    As an alternative, many DL students find that US state-licensed/approved programs can meet their objectives since costs are low in comparison, programs are highly accessible (usually with no residency requirements) and courses tend to be vocationally-biased towards "degree completion" for adults including credits for work experience. Indeed, the web site of a US commission on higher education shows that the(11.6) Universities - USA State Licensed (Without Recognized Accreditation)

    American Coastline University, Louisiana
    California Coast University
    California Pacific University
    Century University, New Mexico
    Columbia Southern University, Louisiana
    Fairfax University, Louisiana
    Greenleaf University, Missouri
    Kennedy Western University, Wyoming
    Miami Christian University, Florida
    Newport University, California
    Preston University, Wyoming
    Southern California University for Professional Studies
    Summit University, Louisiana
    Trinity College and Theological Seminary, Florida

    chairman holds a postgraduate qualification from one of that state's licensed universities. ....

    I am not saying that a KWU Degree is as good as RA, but it does provide value and legal post secondary learning.

    I hope this proves my case.
  6. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    We are talking about higher education, right? Well, nothing you've said has demonstrated anything regarding K-W's place in higher education, except to affirm that it has none.

    You continue to post without addressing the issues.

    Please cite your sources. Without them, your points are worthless.

    Whether or not someone else has an unaccredited degree has no bearing on this discussion. This is about K-W (and other business of its ilk), not some person.

    That business like K-W can operate legally has been stipulated. There is no reason to continue demonstrating that point. Unless, of course, that's all you have to say. Repeating it doesn't give it any more meaning, which is none.

    Your cut-and-paste copy of someone else's writing fails to demonstrate anything about the value and legitimacy of K-W. It simply acknowledges that there are unaccredited schools and lists some. Big deal. We already know that. (Of course, the list is a few hundred short. :D )
  7. Mike Albrecht

    Mike Albrecht New Member

  8. RJT

    RJT New Member

    The meaning of it all ...

    How come noone has replied about the US Ed Commissioner having a State Liscenced Degree???

    Also, I do not need the RA Degree to get a job I already have one making a six plus figure income. If I am learning and can apply it OTJ - that is all that should matter. Besides KWU is approved on the list of schools for tuition refund at my Fortune 500 Employer. They checked the program out and found it was good for the mid-career type like me. I also spent 7 years as a manager at a Big-5 (on an RA AS Degree), so the BS will only assist my credentials. I plan on getting my Masters (a life long learner I guess).

    Finally, 90% of KWU students are like myself mid-career, mid-30's. I do not want to sit in a class room with a bunch of 20 year olds who have yet to cut their teeth on life.

    PS - I realize that my spelling is awful, thank god for spell-check, which if available here, I'd use.

    Best Reagrds to all, may we all continue to learn either in a SL or RA school, learning and getting an education is the most important feature, and what I feel - this is all about.

    RJT (one lifelong student to many others)
  9. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    All that has been proven is that K-W degrees are so worthless that the ODA has declared them to be illegal in the state of Oregan. You point at biased marketing hype from K-W to try to prove your case that a K-W degree has value and is legal. An unbiased opinion such as the Oregan ODA has found K-W to be illegal.

    Here's the link again

    If you don't wish to follow the link it has a list of worthless illegal degrees with the heading.

    "Degrees from these institutions are illegal for use in Oregon:"

    Then in that list we find

    "Kennedy-Western University Wyoming, formerly California and Idaho"

    BTW RJT, know why they change location so often? I think that it's obvious, they're just trying to stay a step ahead of the law. Do you know why they don't admit "students" from California. I think it's obvious but I'd like to hear your guess, RJT.
  10. Ian Anderson

    Ian Anderson Active Member

    Can you provide web address for this commission?
  11. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Re: The meaning of it all ...

    I consider your Commissioner story irrelevent. What is it supposed to prove? It doesn't even prove that he got where he is because he has an unaccredited degree.

    Regarding your story about a Fortune 500 company investigating and approving KWU, I find that almost impossible to believe. I could see an uninformed human resources person approving reimbursement for KWU tuition but not what you claimed. Which company is that, please?

    Regarding you being personally pleased with KWU. I have no problem with that. What I have a problem with is people giving horrible advice to students. Telling them that they should waste their time and money on an unaccredited degree.
  12. DaveHayden

    DaveHayden New Member

    K-W and Berne are not universities. They are businesses that sell degrees that are not accredited or accepted at any academic institution. According to Columbia Southern's web site they require all transfer credit to be accredited. The reason you would want an RA degree is it is acceptrd for transfer and graduate study at ACADEMIC institutions. a K-W degree is NOT. Let's get serious K-W and its degrees are a joke. I assume you don't want to be considered a joke too.
  13. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    Re: The meaning of it all ...

    Mainly because the United States has a Secretary of Education, not an Education Commissioner.

    The Secretary of Education is Rod Paige, who earned his doctorate at Indiana University.
  14. Broderick

    Broderick New Member

    lube job

    Maybe they should rename it K-Y U, cause' it is so slick!:eek:

    Just a thought.

    on a more serious note, why is it not permitted in Ca?


  15. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Re: lube job

    Let's discuss a general hypothetical situation. Diploma mills sometimes take advantage of legal jurisdiction problems to avoid prosecution. For example, say a mill physically operates out of California. They might get a business address in say Montana to operate out of. The business operating address will be nothing but a mail forwarding service which will shuffle the mail back and forth to and from the physical operating address. That way they avoid the authorities in Montana because Montana police know that they operate out of California and the California police don't bother them because they know that they operate out of Montana. Furthermore, they don't want any local students/victims to sue them in local court or citizens of CA complaining to CA police about them so they don't victimize anyone with a CA address. It seems to take federal action to close down these types of operations.

    If you ever see a set up where a "school" has a business address in a different state from the physical operating address and especially if they don't admit students from the state where they physically operate out of then you have a less than wonderful situation and a less-than-wonderful school. I know of no valid reason for a real school to use a set up like this.

    BTW, thanks for the K-Y joke, I enjoyed it.
  16. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I'm pretty sure California issued an order preventing K-W from enrolling students in California. In other words, it's not just a business decision on K-W's part, but in fact an action taken against them by the state.

    K-W lost its authority to operate in California. Unlike FTU and Pacific Western, K-W has no part of its operation functioning under California Approval.

    I've always been surprised that the state doesn't take this kind of action against other schools doing this, like FTU, PWU, and Century. I'm also disappointed that the state would approve one form of FTU and PWU, while these businesses operate another form under another state's laws (Hawaii's). While California can't stop a school from operating in another state, it could pull its approval of its California-approved operation. Also, it could take the same action against such a school as it did with Kennedy-Western.
  17. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the info. So I guess it could mean to some people that both the state of California and the state of Oregan are biased against the "school" Kennedy-Western?

    I haven't heard the RA schools conspiracy theory in a while. Perhaps we will be blessed with that one next? I hope so, it's one of my favorites.
  18. RJT

    RJT New Member

    How come KWU is linscened in WY?

    How come KWU is fully state licenced and compliant with the WY State DoE? They went to KWU's CA offices did an audit and unamaniously approved their Licsence thru 2006? WY has no issue with thir cororate location in CA. Their DoE is in complete compliance with the US DoE. Food for Thought.
  19. RJT

    RJT New Member

    Bere is a U

    Update: Berne is a University, They are listed on the DoE OPSE Website as being eliagable to accept students with US Fiancial Aid. You have to do a Residency with them and they are fully authorized by the Gov't. of St. Kitts.

    How could you say this is not a University? Have you attended there to judge?

    Also, CSU does accept KWU BS Degrees, many former KWU students go the Pub (KWU Alum site) and describe so. Apparently, several instructors at CSU once worked at KWU, or may have Doctorates form there. Also check out Fairfax U. (unacredited state liscened). They clearly state thet graduates have gone on to University of Chicago, School of Business and St Mary's College, 2 RA Schools.

    Pretty stong record for second class schools - Unh?
  20. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Re: Bere is a U

    Sorry but I'd rate the schools that you're discussing to be forth or fifth rate not second rate.

    first rate - RA (or foreign equivalent)
    second rate - DETC
    third rate - less than wonderful schools, a very few state approved schools from the few states that do a very small amount of quality evaluation of the school (which does not include Wyoming)
    fourth & fifth rate - the much less than wonderful schools

    So what about that Ed Commissioner? Who is this guy? I hope he has a name.

    What about this Fortune 500 company that has researched and approved the K-W program? What's the name?

    What about K-W being illegal in the state of Oregan? Do you still claim that K-W degrees are fully legit and legal? If so please reconcile your position for people that live in Oregan or want to apply for a job in Oregan.

    Why does K-W have a physical operation address different from their business mail address?

    Why does K-W not admit students that are California residents?

    As an added bonus, please explain the difference, from your point of view, between a diploma mill and K-W.

    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 5, 2002

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