California Coast University or Pacific Western University(California)

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by brandon, May 23, 2002.

  1. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Re: Your such a sore loser!

    Typical, when someone that's claiming false credentials is discovered they start using misdirection, bravado and insults. A much better reaction is to slink away in silence. The difference between CCU and this forum is that CCU wanted to believe your claims so they could get your money.
  2. Broderick

    Broderick New Member

    Final thought

    Gentlemen of the forum,

    I leave this thread with a final thought, one that relays my feelings well.

    “I am not very likely to persuade other men that I do not regard my present situation as a misfortune, if I am unable to persuade you, and you will keep fancying that I am at all more troubled now than at any other time.”

    Socrates - B.C. 399

  3. Gus Sainz

    Gus Sainz New Member

    Re: Final thought

    Enjoy your Hemlock. ;)
  4. RJT

    RJT New Member

    State Licenced Schools

    All the discussion around CCU is moot. The US Department of Education has determined that a Post Secondary Insitution can legally award derees thur one or two means thru the Approval Process of a State (Meaning Liscence and registered) or thru recognized reggional/national accreditors. Meaning CCU is just as legit as Harvard. Interpretation is up to the Employer. Therfore, even if you disagree with the school, until the state takes away it's liscence it's 100% legit, and all degrees issued during the tenure of its legal ability to issue degrees are legit. If the the school moves to another one of the 50 states and secures a stste liscence, its legit - 100% Bonafide.

    If a state is not stringent, than the state needs to change. However, in the land of the free, as long as a state authorizes, the school is just as justified as Harvard to issue degrees.

    Have Fun!

  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Re: State Licenced Schools

    Legit depends on the definition. The term legal is probably closer. Any state licensed degree may be legal but not necessarily worth much. Somewhat like comparing a used Yugo that starts once a year if you kick it and the gods are smiling but has no windows, and rusty floor boards with a new GM/Ford (etc). Both come under the heading of automobiles but what a world of difference.

    Since you mention the US Dept of Ed, they have also determined the following:

    It says in part:

    "Both the federal and state governments recognize accreditation as the mechanism by which institutional and programmatic legitimacy and capacity are measured. In international terms, accreditation by a recognized accrediting authority is accepted as the U.S. equivalent of other countries' ministerial recognition of institutions belonging to the national education system."

  6. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    Re: State Licenced Schools

    That remains to be seen.

    1. The states have always had the power to regulate education within their boundaries. It is not a power that was delegated to them by the US Department of Education.

    2. The accreditation process, whether regional or national, has nothing to do with a school's legal right to grant degrees.

    All American colleges and universities (with a handful of exceptions like DC) operate with state approval. That's true whether or not they are accredited. Some states issue a blanket automatic approval to all regionally accredited schools, to all state operated schools or whatever they see fit. But these schools are still legally approved by the state, and it is that state approval that permits them to legally operate.

    Accreditation has an entirely different function. It serves to help insure that degrees granted by state approved schools meet some expected standard.

    Just as legal, not just as legit. 'Legal' and 'legit' are two very different things.

    There are many schools offering religious degrees which operate legally under religious exemptions to all state educational oversight laws. Meaning that pretty much anyone can legally offer an M.Div. or a Th.D. program out of their basement, if they just fill out a form with the state first.

    Academic standards? We don' *need* no stinkin' standards!

    Legal perhaps, but not legit.

    Of course, nobody has ever argued that CCU was operating illegally. It is completely legal, I'm sure.

    The controversy is over the academic value and subsequent usefulness of CCU degrees.
  7. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Re: State Licenced Schools

    For a degree what is important is the utility NOT whether or not the school has the right to bestow degrees. Your argument would carry far more weight in countries outside the USA. That is because in other countries the right to bestow degrees is granted by the government and the accreditation process is specified by the government. Therefore outside the USA legal and legit are more closely aligned.

    There are some degrees that can be legally granted but cannot be used in some jurisdictions.

    While an unaccredited degree may be legal in some areas, they do not have the value or utility of RA degrees (or the foreign equivalent). DETC accredited schools are second rate and far below that are the third and fourth rate unaccredited schools.
  8. RJT

    RJT New Member

    The approach that has been taken here is completely subjective. There are many less than stellar RA schools. Look at Kennedy-Western, they do make individuals complete tough course work and the thesis, which IS MORE DIFFICULT than waht I encountered at a traditional RA school. Please read the following:

    As the concept of a on-line degree program is a relatively new one, I extracted the following information about KWU from the ed/ website:

    Non-Resident On-Line Study:

    Kennedy-Western caters to the professional who is working full-time and has a busy travel and meeting schedule. KWU students are able to utilize their professional activities, tasks, and assignments as their learning laboratories, and therefore, may fulfill degree requirements by correspondence. The University facilitates the learning process by providing the student with an array of services on-line. For example, the Kennedy-Western Electronic Library (KWEL) allows the enrolled student a wealth of research information. From enrollment to graduation, much of the student's contact and research can be accomplished via the Internet. The University is constantly adding to the repertoire of technological tools available for student use, which supports our mission, "Virtual Education for the 21st Century".

    Curriculum Comparability:

    Kennedy-Western University guarantees that its curriculum is comparable in academic quality and substance to that found in any college or university in the United States. Curriculum, as defined in this statement, includes learning objectives and accompanying textbooks. The curriculum comparability guarantee has established an overwhelming acceptance of the Kennedy-Western degree in the commercial and business world. This guarantee is met by utilizing a staff of professors who also have teaching responsibilities at major universities throughout the United States. The faculty advisors who develop KWU's curriculum all teach at major universities throughout the United States, including schools such as: the University of South Florida, University of Pittsburgh, Texas A&M University, Central Michigan University, State University of New York (SUNY), Mississippi State University, UCLA and USC.

    Accreditation Review:

    Kennedy-Western is reviewed annually by a post-secondary review team consisting of educators from regionally accredited universities who have no association with the institution being reviewed. The review team checks to ensure that the curriculum is comparable in quality to curriculum offered by traditional universities, and the instruction is being provided is from faculty associated with regionally accredited schools. Kennedy-Western University is a registered private, post-secondary educational institution which is licensed by the state of Wyoming (in accordance with W.S. 21-2-401 through W.S. 21-2-407) and the state Department of Education to issue both undergraduate and graduate college degrees.
  9. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Sir, I will grant you that you are absolutely correct that your approach is completely subjective. Of course the advertising blurbs are going to be completely subjective. That is why it is so important to go with an accredited school. The accreditation process is as objective as possible.

    While it is true that not all RA schools are stellar, there's no objective doubt that they are all far superior to K-W. I'm not even going out on a limb to say that all DETC schools are also far superior to K-W.

    As a matter of fact I would even venture to say that many bottom of the barrel diploma mills would be a better deal than K-W. The reason is that I would guess that the worst diploma mills that require zero work but charge less than K-W would be offering degrees with similar utility (close to zero). So they would be better from the perspective that the student has thrown away less money to get something that's almost useless.
  10. RJT

    RJT New Member

    State Liscenced

    If it is State Liscenced according to the DoE it is as fully authoized to operate as U of P, who is this worthless? How do you know that WY does not have a good review program? How do you know this when you are passing judgements and you have never spoken with KWU grads. I submit Sir, that your opinion is baised, not just subjective.

    Thanks, RJT
  11. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Re: State Liscenced

    I'm discussing the value of the degree from the different schools. It is not subjective to point out that a RA degree will have more utility than a degree from K-W, it is a fact. The reason for this is that RA schools have been regionally accredited. The review program that is in the K-W advertisement is not accreditation and will have little to no bearing on the utility of the K-W degree.

    You point at the marketing hype from K-W as if it was unbiased reference material and then you submit that I'm biased? I submit Sir that you're being disingenuous.
  12. DaveHayden

    DaveHayden New Member

    Re: State Liscenced

    Lol. Another out of nowhere poster stating how wonderful a substandard, unaccredited, and illegal in Oregon school/business is. If K-W is so wonderful why not bother getting accredited? Why choose K-W over accredited choices that are just as inexpensive? :) :) :)
  13. RJT

    RJT New Member

    I understand all your points. I earned over 100 RA credits, but when I learned I had 12 more classes to take, I freaked. This was because not all my coruses form anothe RA college transfered, and I had stopped going for a while so I was not grandfathered in under the old cirriculumm, and I had to take all the new required courses. However, know that the courses at KWU are real and difficult (timed testing). My Faculty Advisor is an RA Professor at a Major University, he has made himeself more available for questions than the professors at the RA schools. I am extermely intellegent and KWU should not be bashed. Why go with accreditation when they are already fit the definition of the DoE's Istitutions that can grant degrees. ... I suspect they dont pursue DETCS, becuse they issue Doctorates.

    Hope this convinces some minds,

  14. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    What's convincing about it? You addressed none of the salient factors making K-W a "less-than-wonderful." (That term isn't to be taken either literally or lightly. Read between the lines.:( )

    Your intelligence is not at issue here. (But you should really try to spell it correctly if you're going to brag about it. In fact, your entire post belies your assertion. In basketball, we call that a "self-check." It means someone who is incapable of playing to the point where no one has to guard him; his lack of skill is like he's guarding himself. If you're going to brag about how smart you are, respondents get to point out how you yourself disprove that assertion.) What you are or what you do to get your K-W degree has nothing to do with the facts already stated about K-W.

    "Why go for accreditation"? So they can be considered a university, instead of a business pretending to be one. Recognized accreditation is what determines what is and is not a university in this country. K-W is not accredited, nor is it accreditable. DETC? (Not "DETCS.") Be serious. Doctorates? I'm convinced that is the core business activity of a "vanity school" like K-W. Without them, their business model fails.

    As far as the DoE goes, they purposely maintain a list of recognized accreditors. That list determines which schools--by virtue of their accreditation--may participate in federal financial aid. The last time I checked (this afternoon), K-W isn't accredited by any of those recognized agencies. It fails that test, too.

    The only two situations where such a degree can be used successfully is (1) where it doesn't matter and (2) where no one checks. Enjoy your K-W degree. Hell, get all the play out of it you can. But to recommend such a thing to someone else is not prudent, and needs to be countered. This I have done.
  15. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    If you desire utility out of your degree once you're done, K-W is a waste of time and money. Immersing yourself in the K-W advertising hype is not the way to come to an unbiased opinion.

    Accussing others of a biased opinion because they state the fact that an unaccredited degree has minimal utility is a very weak position to take. Saying that I must talk to current K-W students before I can say that their degree will be close to useless is totally missing the point.
  16. DaveHayden

    DaveHayden New Member

    So RJT if you have 100 RA credits why don't you enroll at one of the Big Three (COSC, TESC or Excelsior College)? With between 7-11 tests you could finish an RA BA/BS degree for a cost of around $1600 to $1800 which I bet is not far off what K-W is charging you. The degree would be legitimate and would open doors to graduate school and jobs that the K-W degree never would.
  17. Gus Sainz

    Gus Sainz New Member

    I'm sure it has. However, it is fortunate that just like the Jedi mind trick, it only works on the weak-minded.:rolleyes:
  18. RJT

    RJT New Member

    Thanks but I can get a MS at KWU, or Berne U. Also, Columbia Southern has accepted KWU BS Degrees into their Masters programs. CS IS ACCREDITED.

    I really do appreciate the advice, but, I feel that an eduaction is most imprortant to the holder, if I am learning, feel challanged, and the school is Liscened and I can transefer to CS or Berne or stay at KWU. That works for me.

  19. RJT

    RJT New Member

    Test Failed??


    What test is failed the DoE ststes that States and Accreditation are the determiants of a Degree Granting Insitution. KWU is fully state liscened, registered and in compliance with DoE WY, they are held to audits by WY, and even sponsor the WY Teacher of the Year for the WY DoE. How can this be anything less than a legit and legal school. At least KWU is registerd in WY, RA schools do not have to, how closely are they being watched?

  20. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Your knowledge about this field is either non-existent or hidden. Either way, it solves nothing to continue to refute the same wrong statements while you ignore everything else that is said.

    If you really have 100 units, then an accredited degree will be much less expensive, and considerably more utile. But with all the illiteracy and illogic you display, why should anyone take your claims at face value?

    If K-W is truly the right choice for you, congratulations on finding it. But that makes you part of a very tiny minority. Good luck.

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