U of Phoenix stuck it to me

Done.

 

It's Nova Southeastern University. Argosy should be in the database but I don't know why it is not listed. Also, I am still not convinced that all other schools in database are better than U of P.

 

Re: YEAH!!!

It sounds more like a lot of people have it together, and you ran into someone who didn't. A little bit of patience (hard, I know, when facing an academic disaster) is a lot better than a flurry of activity. I hope all the people who suggested complaining all over the world (or even taking legal action) realize now how premature those ideas were--and how much they would have interfered with your resolution.

Academic counselors don't "sell" anything. Enrollment counselors are the closest thing to sales, but academic counselors are there to serve you, not sell you.

Finally, with the size of UoP, it's surprising we don't hear more situations like this. And I think all of us have had--or heard of--similar nightmares at traditional schools. I spent four years teaching at San Diego State University, where students were the absolute bottom of the food chain.

 

I have tried to stay out of this thread because of my negative feelings towards the management of UoP. However, as a student at UoP, you are at the bottom of the food chain. The difference between UoP's and SDSU? The price and the fact one is public and one is a private money making business.

I hope everyone understands this and perhaps you will understand the clearer goal of UoP in general. UoP exists to make money. I repeat, UoP exists to make money. Providing an "education" to their students is just a means to accomplish this goal. UoP could sell pocket rockets, it wouldn't matter. It still accomplishes the same goal.

Secondly, John Sperling started UoP. He started it in Arizona because of the lax educational standards at the time. California refused to allow John to start his college in this state because our standards were a bit higher (granted UoP has gotten better since incorporated in AZ). John, by the way, was humanities professor at SJSU. Having gone to SJSU for a couple of classes, his colleagues didn't seem impressed by his teaching skills (of course, an opinion).

A particularly interesting confrontation with the management of UoP came in the second class of my concentration set of courses. The Director of the campus came up to our class to discuss some particularly demeaning emails that he had received from students. Of course the “salesman” was deeply disturbed because students were complaining that they were sold something that UoP could not deliver (a IT degree with NO hands on in the least). Of course it was our fault because we didn’t understand UoP. (humm – a salesman calling a customer aka student that they are lying – never a good idea). After being quiet for nearly a half hour, I had to speak up. I hate liars and song and dance people, and certainly as a customer I will not and did not stand for being berated by an idiot who called himself “Director”. I explained the business-customer relationship theory and the fact that calling a customer a liar is a bad thing. I also called him point for point on his song and dance. After about 10 minutes (at which time most of the 30 people in the class were about ready to lynch the guy), the assistant dean pulled the dean out of the class. We never heard from any of these shylocks again.

UoP might be a decent business school; they definitely do not have any business in technology. They do not have computers or the facilities to properly teach and IT curricula rum, and should not advertise this fact, as it is a false statement.

With this said, I would have initiated immediate legal action after listening to the song and dance of the “councilor” Nothing gets people moving that seeing their name on a S&C. If they know that they might lose something, then they stop with the corporate finger pointing, and actually accomplish something for the student.

Good luck on the degree –


As a postscript, if I knew all of these things about UoP before I started, I would have never gone. After spending 10 grand or so, you are pretty much locked into the program. Additionally, UoP has paid out hundreds of thousands in fines and lost lawsuits. I know of at least 5 websites dedicated to disgruntled UoP students. If I had to do it all again, I would have either chosen a cheaper DL school (would have learned the same), or a more technical school such as ITT Tech or DeVry.

 

I take it that UoP is not on your short list for the MBA?

 

No --- never was a consideration. 5 of 31 students in my IT class went on for Masters. None at UoP. I take my GMAT this Saturday. If I am able to get over a 450, I have been told that I have been accepted to CSU DH's MBA program. I was thinking about Capella as a second choice - any experience with that DL school?

 

I've heard good things about Capella in general, but nothing specific about their MBA program.

If I were in the market for an MBA degree, I'd probably go with a AACSB-accredited school, just to keep all my options open. If you haven't already, check out Jonnie's Distance Learning Page, which lists over 200 DL MBA programs. One update that Jonnie doesn't have is that Western New England College's online MBA is now AACSB accredited.

 

It's not just fopr profits

Try going through the credit acceptance process at a more traditional school. Their goal seems to be limit the amount of transfer credits to the fewest possible and the maximize the number you have to take with them. Otherwise known as maximizing the amount you have to pay for their classes. Personally, I think that whole issue is one of the greatest in education today. I fought a battle with a local school over 12 credits for my wife. Got a million run around reasons why they couldn't be accepted all of which were BS. Finally, they relented and accepted them but only after I practically took them line through line of their argument and pointed out how ridiculous their reasoning was. Granted the school is not one noted for its DL or adult education programs but neither are they unique. Transfer's get ripped off all over the country, mostly due to their own ignorance of the system and their rights.

 

Hmm...

I'm going to have to disagree with this. First, I don't think you can lump all for-profit schools together, just as you couldn't do with not-for-profits. While I understand what you mean, I don't feel this way about Capella. I was privileged to read a recent white paper produced at Capella regarding the evolution of the graduate pedagogy, curriculum, faculty involvement, student input, among other things. It was a serious piece of work, building on what is in place, and how to keep improving the educational process at Capella. The mission of education at Capella, I think, is the overriding concern. Do they make money at it at the same time? Sure! However, just because they do doesn't mean that the stakeholders aren't also genuinely committed to providing a quality educational experience. Entrepreneurial spirit does not always equal moral bankruptcy.

Second, I receive far better service at Capella than I did while doing my master's at Florida State. Talk about priorities -- all of the student services: admissions, financial aid, registrar, etc., used to be located in the center of campus. Well, guess where they were all moved to? FSU built new buildings and facilities for them . . . ringing the perimeter of the football stadium!! I kid you not -- it's as if the buildings are actually a part of the stadium itself. In addition, the stadium is quite a walk from campus, where all the academics are located. It is clearly all about athletics at this not-for-profit school. Why? Well, with FSU such an athletic powerhouse in the past decade or two, they are raking in the money.

So, anyway, based on my personal experience, I have to disagree with your opinion that only for-profits are chasing the almighty buck . . . they all are, just through different venues.

Just my two cents ,
Adrienne

P.S. Armywife, didn't mean to go off topic on your thread, but had to post. Congrats to you on both getting through this horror show and on your degree!

 

Rich
I appreciate your responses and some corrections to my original post. I do have to call you on a few things:

1. Student is king? Where? Not at the San Jose/Oakland/or Pleasanton campuses? As far as we knew, the evaluations were "s-canned" as they were apparently ignored. (we complained about one instructor in mass (all 31 of us). He was back teaching again and again (and is still there today).

You cannot compare a state college with a for profit college such as UoP. It is a big cash cow for the Sperling family. However, I have had better customer service at my local McDonald's.

2. Computer Resource Center? Hahaha! We are in the heart of the highest technology area in the world. The network at UoP SJ was in disarray most of the time. The "resource" center consisted of 15 (tops) PIII computers and two printers. How can you teach IT without something at least relatively modern

3. UoP has quietly settled with a lot of students, including one in our program (I hear for nearly 100K for misrepresentation - if it went to court it would have probably went well into the 6 figures). Although I think litigation is a last ditch effort, it is usually the only way to get a CEO woken up and people not doing their jobs fired.

Of course, that is just my opinion...

 

What you say is as true as it gets. Looking back on this I would never go to what you call a "corporate" school again. I started out at Southern Christian University and it was very small. They didn't have a whole set up though like UOP does with the online classroom. so I still had to do a lot of the traditional things like listen to lectures etc. mail things in. I thought it would be easier to go with something all set up. I made a mistake. If I had it to do over again I would have gone with a small school. Maybe they don't have all the bells and whistles but at least they remember that they are a SCHOOL not a credit card company. You are right. I'm a number at UOP. I have defended them on this board even in the past but I will be the first one to say stay away from a school that is out for money and that's it. I will never again make that mistake.

 

In regards to the issue of taking legal action, I have to admit it was only after I said that I was going to do this that anyone started responding to me. I agree it is absurd that anyone should have to go to those lengths but only in bringing that into it was I taken seriously. Also that is when I received the phonecall from this person in the Office of Disputes who told me that in order for them to work on resolving the problem I had to agree not to pursue legal action until they rendered a decision. That was a short comment she made to me at the end of the phone conversation that I didn't think much about until I read today on hear that UOP has undoubtedly been sued before. Sad.

If they had not have done the right thing I most definitely would have gotten a lawyer. I did the work for that grade and the tried to give me the shaft. That is wrong. People should reap what they sow.

 

Frankly, I would say that Holly's story is textbook classic of the OPPOSITE of good customer satisfaction. She would have been dead in the water if she hadn't been incredibly persistent.

For UoP to instruct its counselors to avoid mentioning the dispute process, for everyone there to not have a clear policy on how to handle these situations, and for Holly to have sent her info on military tuition discount a dozen times.... all of those point to an absolutely appalling lack of interest in the customer.

If UoP were setting itself as a model of customer care for its customers (students), there would be a culture that is present in the core of every employee of "How can I give this student a wonderful experience."

No, when you have consistent reports like this one of terrible service, it's clear that at the very top of the organization, either nobody gives a damn about customer satisfaction, or they've consciously chosen to make customer satisfaction a low priority because they don't need to do so.

That is why I suggest the approach of FedExing letters to senior management at home; that's one of the few ways that senior management actually figures out that there are terrible problems, and if anyone actually *does* give a damn, it makes things change.

To give you an example of what's possible, Southwest Airlines operates in a highly regulated, very low-margin business, where nearly all of its competitors have lost money. Yet nearly every one of its employees provide extraordinary service and genuinely care about their Customers. Compared to Southwest's business, UoP would have a walk in the park if they chose to pay more than "window dressing" attention to customer service.

 

I would like to say that I did have some positive experiences at UoP. I will outline them on another thread.

 

U of Phoenis stuck it to me

I had the opposite experience with the UOP. I just completed a Master of Arts Degree in Organizational Management on 14 Apr and received my diploma and transcripts on 20 Apr 04.

I started with UOP Online on 30 May 02, and completed 14 courses (40 sh - a introductary course one sh and 13 three sh courses) on 14 Apri 04. I did not have one bad instructor, and the material was challenging and relevant.

Aside from the fact that they, UOP, changed my financial and academic counselors three threes. I had ZERO problems. And, they did let me know everytime they changed the counselors, and I was contacted via e-mail or phone after the chagnge of both academic and financial counselors each time. Moreover, I was able to change my schedule several times to fit vacation plans or family emergencies. Further, I received effective and efficient customer service in all areas.

I think Rich Douglas stated it very well when he said that a University with an enrollment over 200,000 students will have some problems.

Just like the actions of a few servicemembers that were involved in the prison abuse in Iraq should not tarnish the reputation of all, neither should the actions of a few counselors do the same for the UOP.

Finally, I cannot believe that a regionally accrediated university with the course offerings that it provides is not listed because of the negative experiences of some people.

Granted UOP is not perfect, (price and marketing techniques come to mind). But, I can almost guarantee you that neither is any of the schools that you have listed in your databanks. \All the best,

Fred

 

Re: U of Phoenis stuck it to me

I have also had my financial counselor changed twice in 2 years and my academic counselor changed 3 times. They must have a high turnover in these jobs. I don't blame you for feeling positively about UOP. I had one foot out the door before this happened to me. Aside from the issues with my mlitary discount I felt like you did. Just like anything else. Until they screw you over personally you have no issue with them. It's the same thing with UOP. Until you're the one getting the short end of the stick, it's all sunshine!

 

I attended from 12/1999 to 5/2002 and earned a BS in IT. My experience with UoP, like yours, was very positive. I completed 23 courses (69 credits) online, transferred 54 c/h from a CC and completed 9 c/h by examination.

I cannot believe it either...

 

Re: Hmm...

Hi Adreinne

I believe I agree with both your main points. I don't see Capella, Walden, Fielding and Saybrook acting like U of P and AIU. I think the former understand their success depends on how well they treat there customer. The latter don't seem to grasp that basic fact. Further, I think you make an excellent point that often larger State schools also fail to see the students are their main, if not exclusive, customers. I am very much a free-market person. I don't see government as the answer to most issues. At the same time, it feels like "corporate think" has creeped into our society in a way that is extremely dysfunctional and dangerous. I definately don't know the exact answer. I can, however, see when things have gone drastically wrong.

 

Hi

I am glad that you were able to get the situation addressed and solved. I think it is very interesting and not surprising that that only happened after you brought up possible legal action. I think unfortunately it is getting more and more difficult to deal with large corporations without doing so. In any event congrats!