Whatever happened to the wall?

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by Abner, Sep 30, 2018.

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  1. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

    I'm relying on reality. Fuentes is what he is and has been and the mega-mob has obviously been organized.
     
  2. heirophant

    heirophant Well-Known Member

    There's a video of Gutierrez saying it here:

    https://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/1053047561412583426?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1053047561412583426&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theblaze.com%2Fnews%2F2018%2F10%2F18%2Fmexican-ambassador-makes-a-stunning-accusation-about-migrant-caravan-from-honduras
     
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  3. heirophant

    heirophant Well-Known Member

    I just saw a recording of Vice-President Pence on TV recounting a conversation he had this morning with President Juan Orlando Hernandez of Honduras. Pence told assembled reporters that Hernandez had told him that that the caravan was organized by left-wing organizations in Honduras, who in turn were funded by Venezuela.

    AFP is reporting that the Honduran newspaper La Tribuna reported on October 16 that Bartolo Fuentes of the Honduran 'Libre' organization as saying that he and other Libre members had organized the caravan. Libre is a radical movement founded by former Honduran President Manuel Zelaya, an ally of Hugo Chavez.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/pence-points-leftist-groups-caravan-organizers-184848787.html
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
  4. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

  5. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member Staff Member

    More gruel? You want more gruel?
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2018
  6. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member Staff Member

    A brick and mortar wall? Is that like as opposed to an online wall?
     
  7. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member Staff Member

    What about that bit about giving me your tired and your poor and huddled masses yearning to be free (or something like that)?
     
  8. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

    It's still there, where it was added to the pedestal of the Statue of Liberty.
     
  9. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    There are literally billions of people in the world who fit that description and it's simply impossible to take them all in and make everything all better for everyone. Tough decisions have to be made as to how to share the water without emptying the well.

    To think of the same problem on a more local scale- how many homeless people are you willing to take in, yourself? There are hundreds of thousands of homeless people already here in the US. If we can't figure out how to save them, when they're right here in front of us, how can we save millions more that think that coming here, legally or otherwise, will be their relief?

    I don't cry very often, but this video did it for me:

    (Hmm I tried to post it at the time stamp of 5:20, but couldn't get it to work with this forum's code)



    For those who don't know spanish- the reporter is saying is that these people don't have anything and are in a very bad way. They have been walking all day , day after day, and for many of them, the the first food that they have consumed in several days has been donations received by locals.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2018
  10. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

  11. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

  12. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

  13. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    This is hilarious.

    LOL. Sounds like satire, but she's being serious.

    There is so much wrong with this story, I'm not entirely sure if it's the situation that actually as absurd as it seems, or if it's just buzzfeed being buzzfeed and leaving out important facts and details.

    What I can glean is that neither Trump nor anyone close to him authorized the building of that section of the fence, and neither Trump nor anyone close to him authorized a plaque calling the fence a wall. Trump may deserve some credit if the renewed activation of this project, which was either put on the backburner or deliberately ignored since 2009, was some kind of extension of one of his policies, but it certainly isn't Trump's wall that we're looking at in those pictures.

    The fence looks unfortunate, to say the least. A fit person should be able to, with some patience, scale it by either gripping onto the planks or using some rock climbing equipment. A 25 foot ladder could also do the trick. The wry side of my humor is begging me to mention that maybe this is a good thing- that it's a great way to filter out lesser physical specimens and to ensure that those who make it here will be the best candidates for the android warrior initiative currently being carried out at Area 51.

    Or, a few friends with some basic tools should be able to make an opening big enough to walk through, but that would be boring.
     
  14. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member Staff Member

    But the problem is that we are no longer living up to that ideal. According to the Lou Reed song "Dirty Boulevard" (off his "New York" album), "Give me you tired and your poor and I'll p!$$ on them, give me your huddled masses and I'll club them to death. That's what the Statue of Bigotry says." (Or something like that.)
    n
    In political theory, there is a concept called natural rights of life, liberty, and property (and the pursuit of happiness). It would seem to me that the right to life includes the right to self-preservation. In other words, if you live I a $h!th0l3 country, you have the natural and inalienable right to move to a non-$h!th0l3 country.
    Many conservatives are fond of saying that America is a Christian country. Well, if that is the case , I seem to remember Yshua at Nazaret having said something about helping the poor. America under the P*$$y-Grabber-in-Chief is not living up to those ideals.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2018
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  15. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    Being a constitutional republic, the rights protected by every level of public policy belong principally to those who are citizens. Immigration is a question of national sovereignty. It's not as simple as just letting everyone in, requiring no processing and expecting no accountability. To be clear, I'm not saying that's what you, specifically, are proposing.
     
  16. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member


    We never did. That plaque was added to the pedestal in 1903, long after much of the huddled masses had arrived. We had restricted immigration before that plaque was added and we had restricted immigration after.
     
  17. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member Staff Member

    Dear MC Ban Hammer: I love you like a brother but I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on some things. I realize that there would be extreme logistical problems to trying to import every poor person I the world in this country. But there is another possibility: if we cant take in all the poor, e can try to export democracy and capitalism. In the nineteenth century this was known as White Man's Burden, but the White Man's Burden seems to be somehow politically incorrect these days (because of the abuses during imperialism). And then there is the problem of White Man's Guilt. Under the new-fangled (since the 1960s, anyway) approach to historical studies, we learn that men have oppressed women for the last 4000 years and whites have oppressed blacks for the last 400 years. Clearly, there needs to be some sort of reparations for these historical wrongs.

    There is a concept among Libertarians called Open Borders, which I believe Steve Forrester (sp?) recommends. I'm kind of tilting towards Open Borders, but with some reservations. We learn in that Americans stole the Mexican states of Texas (1836-1845) and California (1846-1848) [these being the American states of Arizona, California, Colorado, Nevada, New Mexico, Texas, and Utah]. Since the American Southwest used to be the Mexican Southwest, there should be some sort of ancestral right of return. Maybe not full-fledged Open Borders, but immigration should be made much easier.

    PS - THAT VIDEO WAS TOUCHING.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2018
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  18. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member Staff Member

    Darn! I accidentally hit the send button too soon! As to your question about taking in a homeless person, that depends on your living arrangements. If you are young and broke and living above your parent's garage or in your parent's basement, you need Mommy and Daddy's permission to take in a street person. If you're getting established and have your own place and you're still single, you can take in a homeless person if you don't mind taking that risk. If you have a wife and kids, you have to take into consideration their personal safety issues. But there are other things you can do like take them to a homeless shelter, throw your spare change at the homeless persons, volunteer at a soup kitchen or food bank, vote for politicians who will help the poor, help them to get some sort of government benefits and such like.

    EDIT: Once upon a time, while living in my father's house (during 1 yr. my father was living in Tennessee on a temporary job transfer while I stayed in Seattle to watch the house and finish my MBA studies), a homeless man asked me if I could take him in for the night and I did. I got in a little trouble with Mom and Dad but they were understanding of my liberal Christian desire to help the poor.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2018
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  19. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member Staff Member

    Well, I took Spanish in high school and lived in Colorado (which has a large Hispanic population) for eight years but my Spanish is quite rusty.
     
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  20. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member


    You know that I love a crossover post. That's a post that connects two different threads. Here's a great one. It could have landed in the Conspiracy Theory thread just as easily.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/a-college-instructor-in-journalism-no-less-causes-waves-with-a-conspiracy-theory/2018/10/30/bdfbe568-dc6d-11e8-85df-7a6b4d25cfbb_story.html?utm_term=.6114b3ee69b5
     

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