what is really accredited?

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by morleyl, Nov 1, 2003.

  1. morleyl

    morleyl New Member

    In respect to St. Regis, I would not recommend them for other reasons than what they claim their process is all about. In fact from my little knowledge, I have recommended the big three to a few friends who needed a degree completion option. I mentioned St. Regis solely on the basis of what hey said on their assessment site.

    Obviously, if someone does not have a real address, no phone numbers, no faculty and does not answer questions directly, they should not be considered. so the con-artist stuff should be easily detected.

    In respect to unaccredited schools, it depends on the circumstances. If they have obvious problems based on how they issue degrees then one should avoid them. I do not think a person is really bad to use an unaccredited school as long as the above stuff is clear.

    When I speak or write about this stuff, I am refering to a school that should have real registration, faculty, location and clear commitment to education. I am not trying to just moneymaking schemes here.

    Form this whole excercise it is clear to me that people are not totally aware of the accredited options for getting a degree as they are of the non-accredited means.

    For example I have exchange e-mails with the registrar of Ansted University and they seem to have a good start in their approach to degree granting. Again, I am not pushing them as an option but they have a fairly good approach.
  2. DaveHayden

    DaveHayden New Member

  3. morleyl

    morleyl New Member

    So Dave:

    you need to educate me again. What exactly makes Ansted a diploma mill? I am really curious.
  4. morleyl

    morleyl New Member

  5. Frankie

    Frankie member

    Unaccredited schools are a problem because they are unregulated and unsupervised.

    Without regulatory standards what worth can an unaccredited degree truly have?
  6. morleyl

    morleyl New Member

    Hi Frankie:

    I would say that they have to start somewhere, if they are around for a long time then that would be an issue to begin with. My question originally was what is legall accreditation? Most of these schools wether good or bad claim accreditation. Now, the ones that accredit themselves we do not need to discuss since that does not make common sense.

    I am more interested to focus on some of the agencies seem to be independent. Maybe they are not independent of the school, but I really do not know. The one I see that is popular other than the RAs is WAUC or something like that. What do people think of them?

    Some school work with professional bodies to get some kind of mutual acceptance. So for starts been unaccredited may not be bad but of course would be questionable.
  7. morleyl

    morleyl New Member

    Speaking about schools that went through the ropes. http://www.onlineitdegreeprograms.com/index.jsp

    The ACCIS was at one time accredited by WAUC and now they are DETC accredited. So even though some will question WAUC as a legitimate accreditor, maybe some of the schools there could have good intention for education
  8. Frankie

    Frankie member

    There is no such thing as "legal accreditation." A school can be state approved but not accredited.

    Accreditation is essentially a stamp of approval by a government recognized body given to an institution with proven documented adherence to prescribed standards of excellence.

    Since they themselves are unregulated and not subject to third party review and sanction, they are no better then school owned accrediting agencies.
  9. morleyl

    morleyl New Member

    so now you need to educate me again. the USDOE approve certain agencies mainly for financing purposes. How does this process work and what is required for an agency to maintain their status?

    You mentioned that you would get rid of someone with degree from one of these unaccredite or diploma mill schools. now if the degree is technically legal, how could you do that unless the person is breaking a law? You could ignore the degree but why would you fire them? secondly, if the person has it in a field that he does not have any knowledge then that by itself would be fraud.

    I was reading on here someone said admitted that they pursued a PhD in History. Now, my discussion was not along the line of buying a degree but it seem this person could use the title Dr. whereever it is legal. If they make no employment claim with this you could not really hold it against them.

    What you think?
  10. Jeff Hampton

    Jeff Hampton New Member

    Well, apparently it is possible. But that is not the point. In this case, I think the most salient point is blackmail.

    A person who uses a completely bogus degree obviously has ethical shortcomings.

    So what would happen if a person were to approach this nuclear power plant manager and say, "Give me a job, or I will expose your fraudulent credentials." Do you really trust someone who claims a bogus degree to sacrifice their own career in order to do the right thing?

    And what if that person who demanded a job is a terrorist?
  11. morleyl

    morleyl New Member

    If the person is using the degree with the intention to deceive others, then I agree they are not good for the job. I honestly would not support that approach in anyway.

    I am assuming that someone who has a lot of experience and knows how to run a nuclear plan run into one of these schools advertising how they could give him a legal degree etc, then maybe this person is a victim.

    I think a lot of people think they are genuinely qualified and thats why these schemes appeal to them, not everyone is on Degreeinfo to really know the difference sometimes, a lot of them do not know about TESC or WGU etc.

    a lot of people are willing to commit fraud in some ways or another. Enron was a good example and they all have very good degrees too.
  12. Jeff Hampton

    Jeff Hampton New Member

    Actually, this very issue is why many people still believe that DETC is not on par with the RA accreditors. DETC has accredited several schools that have claimed bogus accreditation. In fact, some of them maintained their claims right up until the day they were accredited by DETC. I think that anyone really interested in standards in education would view this as a negative mark against DETC, rather than a positive mark for the bogus accreditors.
  13. Jeff Hampton

    Jeff Hampton New Member

    In another thread, you asked, "What is wrong with these guys using phoney degrees?"

    I am telling you what is wrong with it.

    It doesn't matter if someone has the necessary experience. If a person is using a bogus degree, that person is a security risk. That person is in a position to be blackmailed. And given the fact that they are using a bogus degree, I think it is fairly likely that that person would submit to that blackmail.

    It doesn't matter whether or not the person might be able to qualify for a degree. They are telling a lie. That person has low ethical standards. And they are in charge of a facility that is a potential weapon of mass destruction.

    Yet you cast this liar as a victim.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 25, 2003
  14. morleyl

    morleyl New Member

    Well, where did you get that quote that I supported phoney degrees? I do not in anyway. why devalue my own well earned degree by supporting phoney stuff?

    As said in my previous reply if he is knowingly lying about it then he is a risk. There is no question about that.

    First of all, if someone gets a degree by some means they should be honest about it. Thats what would be my best suggestion, do not LIE about anything.

    In respect to the DETC, well, I guess no one can win here. If a school has a genuine interest in education, decides to use a less recognized agency but when they get more establish they apply for DETC. Why should the DETC use that against them?

    an agency may be less recognized but may not be a scam so to speak. The fact that a school make the step should be applauded.
  15. bgossett

    bgossett New Member

    I think the troll timer is ticking. Loudly.
  16. DaveHayden

    DaveHayden New Member


    The link you listed is dead. Did Ansted pull it when the saw it linked to from Degreeinfo?

    To answer your question about AU there are many clues. They are run by a Malaysian gentleman but are incorporated in BVI famous home of degree mills. Most of their links say under construction. Under accreditation they never answer the question of accreditation! They have a huge list of "external" faculty. More than could ever have taught at such a school. The list goes on, but it is clear to see it for what it is... a degree mill.
  17. Jeff Hampton

    Jeff Hampton New Member

    I think it makes a lot more sense than paying a bogus accreditor, just as I think it makes a lot more sense to print your own diploma, rather than paying for one from a mill.
  18. DaveHayden

    DaveHayden New Member

    You keep using "Mill Speak". They aren't less recognized. They are fraudulent. You do understand the difference correct? If someone is known as a liar, do you co-sign a car loan for them?
  19. morleyl

    morleyl New Member

    I guess this forum is very interesting. I guess there is a lot of judgemental approach on here which in the end is not honest. I have tried to maintain a balance approach to issues and I am not saying that I am perfect with that approach.

    I just feel that the term diploma mill based on its definition does not apply to all unaccredited schools.

    Again, I will say I do not support schools who do not require any work from students and my point was that someone can convert their experience into real credit and gain a degree.
    The key is that the process can be wholist in such a way that the person will be better off despite howw much experience they had before.
  20. morleyl

    morleyl New Member

    Again, I am not sure I understand the reason you use the term fradulent in every risk. You could use low standard or unrecognized or something.

    Can you explain why WAUC is fraudulent for example?

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