Université Francophone Robert de Sorbon

translation of french embassy reply

translation of US french embassy message:

Voici la réponse que j'ai eu de la part du service d'éducation à
l'Ambassade:

Cette école est légale, c'est une association loi 1901 mais elle ne peut pas
délivrer de diplômes reconnus par le ministère de l'Education Nationale.

Cordialement,

Service de Presse

Here is the answer i've gotten from the embassy office in charge of educational matters:

this school is legal ex law 1901.
HOWEVER they cannot bestow degrees recognized by the french ministry of education

message full content & headers are elsewhere here.

Except my spelling errors ( like -ap-paraitre sur vs dans ) it is all bright as the sun.

RDS is a legal outfit in the legal form of an association banded for generic higher learning purposes.
As you see, authorities NEVER mention any foreign accreditation as playing a role in the matter.
That is perhaps a plus RDS tries to offer his "graduates", by setting up different mirrors: some Delaware or Nevada ghost corporaton; some Kamerun exotic outfit; the Comoros jolly joker. Even a tie to Switzerland was earlier mentioned.
You graduate & receive a full ( stacked ) deck of degrees: you then choose the card to play on the spur of the moment.
You can set up a company or band an association under the same name in a dozen places: that means nothing.
What matters ( as long as France is concerned ) is RDS is a "school" at the same level of french cuisine, stenotyping, language or karate schools.
The knowledge they impart/assess has nothing to do with the french ministry of education, neither do their "degrees".
Hence the french card in your deck is pretty useless but pehaps the Anjouan one might fool some good folks in need of a good optometrist.

 

In light of what's-his-name being a Chevalier de Merde or whatever, I'm surprised he isn't claiming that a degree from Anjouan is authorized by the House of Anjou. Can't get more French than that. Hey, our departed shill who started out wanting an honorary degree--maybe he can get knighted or something. Now that'll wow the Iraqis he was setting out to impress!

I wonder what the Arabic word for "shill" is?

 

things that can be said but never written

In that "Anjou" also refers to a variety of pear, we have a rich sea of proto-puns to splah in. There is "pear" and "pair" and also "pare" and, naturally, if we extend our range into French, père, pair, paire, et tout le reste.

The Thing That Can Be Said But Never Written is that... there are more than a pair of <phonetic version of "pairs"> in our language.

Doesn't this whole Robert de Sorbon thing resemble the various legally established Hawaii businesses that are then hammered very flat by Jeff Brunton once they start operating (meaning once they begin printing diplomas for their customers)?

G

 

another reply from french authorities. this time from the ministry's website itself:

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***www a écrit:

>bonjour.
>j'ai une question pour vous.
>Je vous ecris d'Italie.
>http://www.sorbonedu.com
>Cet etablissement affirme etre un etablissement d'enseignement
>superieur dument authorise par le gouvernment francais.
>Donc ils disent etre en mesure de decerner des diplomes
>nationaux francais.
>Partout sur le WWW ils se reclament de l'autorite du
>gouvernment francais pour donner de credibilite a leur entreprise.
>ils disent avoir paru dans la gazette officielle du gouv.
>francais mais dans
>
>
>http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/
>http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/WAspa...ExperteJorf.jsp
>
>je n'ai trouve aucune mention.
>
>Veuillez SVP me faire part de votre avis officiel au sujet.
>Mes sentiments distinguees
>***
>

Bonjour,
Cet établissement ne fait pas partie des universités habilitées à
délivrer des diplômes
nationaux.
Cordialement. Le vaguemestre




Bonjour,
Cet établissement ne fait pas partie des universités habilitées à
délivrer des diplômes
nationaux.
Cordialement.
Le vaguemestre

hello.
this business is NOT an university authorized to bestow state degrees.

******************

this is the 34th time...

 

Nice job, Ham. But it will still not be enough for the apologists.

 

However It has been enough to convince them it would be better to relocate on boards with 39 users where they play the "openminded" splitting hairs about a country whose system they ignore even if their life depended on it.
And by turning deaf ears to such simple questions as "is RDS accredited by the french ministry of education?".
Answer: NO.
You get plenty of academic mumbo jumbo, though.

 

Why can't people on this board just agree to disagree without passing insults and calling each other names. Is it a psychological necessity to build ourselves up by degrading other members? Being aware of quality programs in higher education is great. Showing we are educated enough to keep our mouth shut before tongue lashing someone is the beginning of wisdom.

 

Why can't people on this board just agree to disagree without passing insults and calling each other names. Is it a psychological necessity to build ourselves up by degrading other members? Being aware of quality programs in higher education is great. Showing we are educated enough to keep our mouth shut before tongue lashing someone is the beginning of wisdom.

if you're talking to ME, blame me then for the last irish potato famine, for slave trade & every (im)morally misguided action & mishap & tragedy in the world...
I can live with that.

After this diversion, i hope you will agree to agree about the following:


Ecole Supérieure/Université Robert de Sorbon is N O T
a french university;
not a french high school;
not chartered/recognized by the french government to bestow state university level degrees .

RDS is at the most comparable to vocational schools like pedicurist, chess, karate...

I think this matters more ( a lot more ) than how pleasant a person i may or may not be.
There is no "hearsay"; no "opinion of mine; no "some guy in Florida told some guy in Arkansas ".
There is the french government & its opinion.
Nevermind it's the law of the land there.

It hurts some people more (actually) than my take on the palestinian crisis.
However i can live with that.
They seem to be unable to live with such a simple, bright truth as the negative answer coming from the french government regarding RDS status as a french university.

Hell, i hope they don't expect me to drag Jacques Chirac himself into THIS...do they?

 

Dr. PhD_Cyberspace,

This is not really an issue of agreeing to disagree. People using bogus degrees can do so but that doesn't mean that we must accept them does it? This place makes misleading statements and they shouldn't be left unchallenged? The degree mill apologists that keep trying to protect degree mills are spreading false information. It is not just someone's opinion that one "agrees to disagree with".

 

There is a difference between someone buying a worthless piece of paper to put on their wall amd someone having their many experiences evaluated under the VAE Process. Personally I can't see Sorbon making it rich off this venture.

I got a better idea. Why don't we just start Cracker Jack University and stick a diploma in every box? Whether or not Sorbon is acting within the French Law, is up to the government there.

I have read many of the universities listed in John Bear's most recent guide. And Sorbon isn't yet listed there. But many of the so called diploma mills mentioned on this board are not listed in the applicable chapter (referring to diploma mills) in his book. They are mentioned in the Unaccredited non distance section.

Thank you.

 

600 USD per diploma is very good money if you think about it. The owner of this wonderful school is not mother Teresa, he has invested some money with the idea of getting his money back with high returns.

The business is really clever, the owner makes money with the credential evaluation plus with the RDS diploma. If you read its website, he is targeting prospect immigrants to the US that are looking for an easy way to get in by getting a fast degree that could help them with a H1-B and green card application. This can bring thousands of possible customers that will spend the 600 USD per diploma plus the cost of the credential evaluation. No getting rich? Put it this way, if RDS was in the stock market, I would be the first one to invest in this venture for the high return of investment that seems to offer.

 

There is a difference between someone buying a worthless piece of paper to put on their wall amd someone having their many experiences evaluated under the VAE Process.

evaluated BY WHOM ?
The law indicates a general procedure.
Commissions at state universities must take the concern of evaluating private cases.
I don't think it includes some PO box guy in Senegal, cannibal island or Switzerland.
Hence i can agree with you provided you SPECIFY & DISCLOSE whom one's credentials are evaluated by.

Whether or not Sorbon is acting within the French Law, is up to the government there.

Haven't we had enough of french authorities' replies above?
They all say one thing about RDS.
I can then concede RDS might be perfectly legal in the capacity of a pedicurist or singing school.
What one might want to do with any VAE paper from such a "prestigious" source, habe ich keine Ahnung daraueber.

I have read many of the universities listed in John Bear's most recent guide. And Sorbon isn't yet listed there. But many of the so called diploma mills mentioned on this board are not listed in the applicable chapter (referring to diploma mills) in his book. They are mentioned in the Unaccredited non distance section.

i already addressed this earlier.
the book is now ages old.
to mention, Marlborough University (a known degree mill) used to SELL it!
There is a pack of etherogeneous institutions in the "other schools" chapters and i suppose they can't brand them as "degree mills" because it's a gray area & there might be litigation over such a simple concept.
Anyway, i do NOT need dr.Bear's approval to evince RDS is fake.

I commend RDS for having thought of exploiting the well-known soft spots of americans ( foreign languages ) + the "exotic" french attire.
RDS was well aware french authorities very rarely (if any at all) reply to non-french inquiries.
French official sites do NOT have any english interface.
Bravo!

Too bad not anybody & everybody out there is a unilingual moron.

 

before claiming 600$ is too little, think what you get in return.
Once we (successfully) discard the "worldwide authorities in the field are going to assess one's resume " item, what's left?
Some compuserve email?
Hell, you can get a full, unlimited email+website package for under 10$ a month!
With net DSL access for under 15$.
A diploma laser printed on the best paper?
1-2$ say 5 with labour.

How much is that?
Even with a few postmarks from Senegal or cannibal island it is nearly 95% profit.

 

Ham,

What I said, is let France police their own. Don't try and sit back 4000 miles from there and second guess them. I am sure that they are very good, even they are from there. I guess you think the whole country is stupid?

My comments earlier are just that. Where the devil is Cannibal Island? Your insults are very unprofessional and let the public know that fact. Let them be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You have no right to sit in judgment.

 

PHD_Cyberspace,

I don't think Ham is trying to do anything other than warn intrested 'buyers'.

When RDS came out, even some of the members from degreeinfo were intrested. If anything I would commend Ham for atleast trying to inform/educate members here about the school.

I also had many conversations(e-mail) with the French government. At no time did they ever give a positive view of this 'school' later they gave explicit warnings to anyone trying to use the "degrees".

I would think that after all the posted emails RDS would be one of the best documented fakes around... I don't think we have been able to get this many official governmental replies about schools like SRU!

 

I don't have any problem with that.

My position on Robert de Sorbon is simple: If RdS is supposed to be accepted by Americans like myself as having the French equivalent of American accreditation, I have to be convinced that it has actually undergone a French equivalent of the accreditation process.

So I'm quite happy to let the French do whatever incomprehensible things that they do.

But before I agree to accept the academic validity of a French school with as many red flags flying as Robert de Sorbon, I need to have the French process explained to me in terms suitable for a unilingual moron like myself, and I need to know how to verify the results.

Unfortunately remarks like this, "Ecole Supérieure/Université Robert de Sorbon is N O T a french university; not a french high school; not chartered/recognized by the french government to bestow state university level degrees" isn't very enlightening to me.

I know that ESRDS isn't a university, but France also has these 'ecole' things, and some of them are quite prestigious (more so than the relatively open-admissions universities). I don't know what it means for an institution to be French. (There are institutions with British addresses, run by Britons, that technically aren't British.) I'm not sure what a 'high school' is in this context (in the US that phrase denotes a secondary school). I don't know what 'chartered/recognized' by the French government means (is it possible to start higher education institutions that aren't, and if so, what would that mean?) And I don't know what 'state university level degrees' means. What if a French degree isn't a state degree? (Does this state/non-state degree distinction have anything to do with the public/private institution distinction? Or is it more akin to the accredited/non-accredited distinction?) Is there a difference between university level and ecole level degrees?

What can I say? I'm a moron.

So I just go on in my moronic way, thinking that I haven't seen any credible evidence that Robert de Sorbon has undergone any credible academic quality assurance process. Therefore I continue to assume that it's probably the foreign equivalent of an American non-accredited school.

Admittedly Robert de Sorbon seems to have an interesting new gimmick. Besides their SRU-like claim of "accreditation" from the Comoro Islands, they also claim some mysterious never-explained status in an indisputably first world country with a reputation for sound academic standards. But Robert de Sorbon's precise status in France is hidden behind a screen of impenetrable foreign language and unfamiliar educational jargon.

I've seen how unscrupulous Americans exploint Chinese with precisely those weapons. Chinese live in a system with a strong paternalistic government. They hear about voluntary private accreditation contrasted with legal government approval. The Chinese aren't morons (unlike me), so they naturally choose the state-approved schools in preference over the accredited schools. It's coming from the United States after all, and the US has a world renowned higher education system.

Well, I'm just a unilingual moron who is very stubborn. I don't like being tricked by con-men. So I'm not gonna agree that Robert de Sorbon has the equivalent of accreditation until the French higher education system is explained to me in simple terms that I can understand, and until RdS's precise status within that system is fully verified.

 

Hi PhD Cyberspace (or is it Ray, or is it George, or it is Alain?):
Yes, I do think that.
Cannibal Island is the Île de France.
And, yes, I do have every right to sit in judgment.
Especially on a constantly renamed shill.

 

I don't know what 'chartered/recognized' by the French government means (is it possible to start higher education institutions that aren't, and if so, what would that mean?) And I don't know what 'state university level degrees' means. What if a French degree isn't a state degree? (Does this state/non-state degree distinction have anything to do with the public/private institution distinction? Or is it more akin to the accredited/non-accredited distinction?) Is there a difference between university level and ecole level degrees?

chartered/recognized means there is a parliament or head of state ordinance proclaming institution X as an university with the privilege of bestowing degrees (eventually what kind of ).
Private institutions receive the same degree granting powers as public ones if and when the government is satisfied with such private outfits & their explicit compliance with government standards & guidelines ( ex what you are supposed to teach or not to teach ).
The main difference between Europe & the USA is the process is in no way & at no moment "private" in nature.
It is a governmental procedure with guidelines dictated by the law.
There are no private councils & conflicting criteria: just state level ( or provincial level in Germany & Canada ).
Parliament ordinances/head of state are registered ( must be, otherwise the law can't apply ) in the public govt gazette.
This for many, many kinds of sensitive business, like banks, insurance companies ( they all must disclose how & when they got registered & authorized to act as such).
Same as the US president can veto a law, the italian & french president must underwrite any law.
In Italy this insures a triple crosscheck for constitutional validity.
Urgent laws can also come in effect through head of state's ordinance ( In Italy even the government enjoys such a power, however time-limited ).
Hence "private" outfits can indeed exist.
Until they enjoy full govt approval, however, their actions, diplomas etc are unrecognized, ignored & treated as if they came from planet Jupiter.
We have no religious exemption in Europe.


Don't try and sit back 4000 miles from there and second guess them.

I actually can be in Paris in under 3 hours driving.

What I said, is let France police their own.

Sure.
By the time they catch on with every new questionable outfit & such outfit relocates out of the country, thousands of unsuspecting people will have been ripped off.


What can I say? I'm a moron.

The choice of learning 56 foreign languages is entirely personal.
HOWEVER that doesn't mean people deserve to be conned by unscrupulous individuals after a quick buck.

But Robert de Sorbon's precise status in France is hidden behind a screen of impenetrable foreign language and unfamiliar educational jargon.

the answer of french authorities is bright.
Even reverend Ray had to agreed.
RDS is not a state university; not a private yet authorized university with state university privileges.
What else do people need to hear?
Indeed in France you've 45 names for university, like IMP, Grande Ecole etc, but their all a state university under a different name, like high school german system has 45 names for what we call high school.
They're duly chartered/approved.

I really can't see what the problem is.
No govt charter/ordinance=toilet paper degrees.
Canada is like that.
UK is like that.
When i contacted the Open University, they were telling me many wonderful things.
I directly asked: does OU have a UK royal/parliament charter?
End of story.
If they had none, i couldn't care less about anything else.

I'm just a unilingual moron

While not much should be read into it, you see the trick works.
On the "other board" they are all trapped into big talks while ignoring what matters: the french law.
And this not by chance, but because of the language barrier.

Where the devil is Cannibal Island?

that is my little secret. I don't want you to spoil MY degree mill accreditation. Watch out for the hit of the century. As a teaser i'll disclose: Ph.D for under 250$+ a subscription to Disney channel ( to prepare you for your first resume & interview ). Now: HOW SWEET IS THAT? .

Your insults are very unprofessional and let the public know that fact.

Yea sure.

You have no right to sit in judgment

The american & french revolutions were started over this basic principle.
I guess this makes me a moron in the league of many prestigious names.
Hell, if you want my $, at least i must be showed value for my buck!
And don't retort RDS isn't after making money, otherwise they'd be busy nursing warfare orphans in Rwanda, not conning americans.

 

Didn't you come to this site to ask about them? Wouldn't you suppose to be happy that you didn't waist your money in this outfit? I think that there is no judgment to be made, if you are getting a piece of paper that is not worth the paper is written then there is nothing to
talk about. Simple, they are not authorized to grant degrees recognized by the french goverment "pointe finale".

If Canibal's island, Gilligan's island or any other exotic place recognizes this degree then they should be granted based on the law of that place and not to try to decieve people by using a French law when they are not authorized to grant french degrees.

 

A shill by any other (of a number of) names would smell as--oh nevermind.

Note the recurring theme in the Sorbon shill's posts under various names: You have no right/How dare you sit in judgment. The shill might be a little bit more persuasive if he weren't a rhetorical one-trick pony/chicken/goat/cannibal. Or might not...naah.