Université Francophone Robert de Sorbon

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by [email protected], Apr 14, 2004.

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  1. MarkIsrael@aol.com

    [email protected] New Member

    We've all heard of the Sorbonne in Paris, but some of us might need a refresher on whom it was named after:
    Well, I just saw the following sponsored link on Google:
    The Website is bilingual. I like it better in French:
    Universite Robert de Sorbon
    Chesa Meng
    Schlarigna, GR 7505
    Registered through: GoDaddy.com (http://www.godaddy.com)
    Domain Name: SORBONEDU.COM
    Created on: 31-Jul-03
    Expires on: 31-Jul-04
    Last Updated on: 31-Mar-04
    Administrative Contact:
    Prade, Dr Jean noel [email protected]
    4619 Higel Av
    Sarasota, Florida 34242
    United States
    9413461427 Fax -- 9413494370

    The following domain name ruling suggests that this is the Dr J. N. Prade, and not a spoofer:
  2. Denver

    Denver Member

    In the section on legal documentation it lists:
    © Université Francophone de Robert de Sorbon, 427 à 429 Main Street Presque Isle ME 04769

    A brief search on the web found:

    Begin Again, Inc.
    429 Main Street
    Presque Isle ME 04769
  3. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    Even in light of the Swiss weirdness, why establish a Francophone "university" in a non-Francophone canton? Graubuenden is a mix of German- and Romansch-speaking.
  4. milotach

    milotach New Member

    Sorry for my english.

    Because in Europe we have many universities of the other members of the europe union in each country, here this is very normal. In spain we have many privated universities 30 more or less, they are from UK, France, Germany, and many others, this is not mean that the teachings are in German or english, as simple as that. But the question about this university is this:

    Not only French also Belgium as similar law that allow someone with acredited experience to do it. This is a post from other forum where explain how in your own country one of your most prestigious agencies of evaluation are using the French Law with the "Université francophone Robert de Sorbon".

    "This is owned and apparently run by AUAP (Dr J.N. Prade), one of the biggest (possibly the biggest) credential evaluation firms in the USA (est. 1995), and the only evaluator to be a member of the American Council of Education (ACE) apart from WES. For years, AUAP has done experiential assessments for clients as well as evaluating foreign credentials (discussed previously here). Now they appear to have formed a body that can legally grant degrees as a result of such assessments.

    Many similar bodies have no serious assessment behind them. However, the assessment of AUAP is something I myself would take very seriously. I note that with a degree from this institution you can get an evaluation to US RA equivalency from AUAP - there is a list of the universities that have accepted such evaluations at the AUAP site (www.auap.com).

    It does look as if this may well be what many people have been waiting for. I have made a few preliminary enquiries myself and they appear to be solidly set up, even if the website is less than polished. They are legally incorporated as a degree-granting body in Anjouan and registered as a foreign university in Maine."

    It seems that AUAP now understand that when a westerm country like France are giving this kind of law, may be is worth to spend time to take money on make a real PLA to test if you really are qualificated or not. Are France Government in the same level than Liberian Government?, I am sure not at all. Now you can say naturally that AUAP is not SRU of course, I will be agree on it again, but the conclusion about the PLA, based in your own AUAP is that PLA degree must be really accepted, of course under very hight supervision, equal than a RA.

    Will someone make a real criticizes against AUAP because he is doing a diploma mill, I saw many treads here speaking against the PLA like a not valid way at all. Prior learning equal to bogus degree is the general opinon. May be I am wrong and all about this university is a bogus news, made by a bogus degree mill instituion. As we say in Spain to throw stones to the sky to rain over your head.
  5. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    Hi Milotach: I'm not throwing stones, I'm throwing Alps.

    It's implausible for a Francophone university to be established in Graubuenden--if it has any real existence.

    I'm not sure your post speaks to that problem at all. What information do you have on specific situations or institutions within Switzerland, especially in light of many earlier posts by myself and others about mills operating in Switzerland under the aegis of "private universities", that would in *any* way show the legitimacy of this--so far--deeply problematic "school"?

    And what on earth have Anjouan, or Maine, to do with Switzerland? Is the Anjouanais recognition from the former rebel government? Or from the government of the Comoro Islands? Admittedly, the Comoros were once a French colony, but they are so no longer (the Mayotte dispute notwithstanding). Have the Swiss now gone in for imperialism in the Indian Ocean? This would give the Swiss Navy something to do, I suppose.

    Multumesc foarte mult for telling me that Europeans are often multilingual.

    Surprisingly, many of us norteamericanos are, too.:rolleyes:
    Last edited by a moderator: May 3, 2004
  6. milotach

    milotach New Member

    HI Unkle, I am not talking about you when I said about the stones, I am only was traing to put the atention in that the law in French allow this kind of degrees, and that a famous and prestiguos agency it seems is using this avantage to give credit. Otherwise whay are this univeristy selling the acreditation with AUAP. I can not give you so many answers specially with my very bad english, but you should ask for this question to AUAP, and if someone is using their name improperly, then they should go to police. The stone was only refer that there is a law by a international and prestigious countries that let you do it, but of course with a very restrictive conditions, I know this law, and is not as simple as it seems, not at less so simple as SRU but the question is that when the water on the river is dark, the fishman take advantage, Unkle, thats all.
  7. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    Hi Milotach: The more I read, the less I like this "school".

    As I read through this "university" website, particularly the legal documents, I noticed nothing about authority to grant degrees, legal license to operate as a non-profit organization or for-profit corporation, or anything whatever pertaining to accreditation.

    My suspicion is that this "university" is a trick to get people past US immigration authorities. Perhaps someone who is better at reading French than I am could double-check that section of the website.

    Milotach, you mentioned French law and US law. I do not see any evidence that this "school" functions as a school either in France or in the United States. The French law they quote on their website pertains to the legitimacy of validating prior learning in general; its pertinence to this school, or any grant of authority under French law for this school to operate, I could not find.

    Let me ask you this:

    If the school is legitimate under US or French law, why are they establishing a purported presence in Switzerland--and the Comoro Islands, or maybe just one of the Comoro Islands with no real authority under the law of the Comoro Islands themselves?

    If the school is legitimate, why did they choose a name that seems designed to create confusion with the real Sorbonne in Paris? Surely the founder of that institution is not very famous.

    How do you make the jump from a list of universities which AUAP claims have accepted their evaluations to any kind of conclusion about the legitimacy of this "school".

    Why am I asking these questions? I am afraid that you are making a kind of jump from documents that "prove" one thing over to conclusions that have little or nothing to do with what those documents actually say. I am also afraid that's exactly what the people who run this "school" would like you to do: read more into what they present than is actually there, and come to conclusions that make them look better than they really are, and also lead you to trust them with very unhappy results later on.

    Please note that I am NOT accusing you of being a "shill"--that is, somebody who secretly is promoting a bad "school". I think this school may have cleverly confused you, tricking you into comparing bits and pieces from legitimate European educational practice, and so making this "school" (in your own mind) solider than it really is.

    And yet--here's the part that makes me angry--if you wasted your time and money on this school, only to realize later on that they were fake, they could claim that you "jumped to conclusions" and that they didn't actually say, didn't actually connect--what you in good faith thought they said and connected.

    If my view is correct, then these are sneaky stealthy people. I do not want you to be fooled or exploited by them.

    By the way, since English is hard for you, why not make your posts first in Spanish and then repeat yourself as best you can in English? Many people here can read Spanish, and so if there is an imprecision in your English, your accurately phrased Spanish can clear up any misunderstanding. (I have done this in writing to professors in other languages, mutatis mutandis: out of courtesy, writing in their language as best I could, knowing that I would make mistakes or say things crudely; then, for accuracy's sake, including a copy of my letter in English so that we could both be sure we understood each other.) I know it's more work to do this, but if it made you feel more at ease in expressing yourself, it might be a good idea.

  8. milotach

    milotach New Member

    Dear Unkle I AN NOT INTERESTED at all on this university, may be you are right about your think about then, may be not, the time will show who they are. Due to my profession I only inform when I am sure about something, journalist we are allways having arguments on court. My intention is to show you the evidence of a future or present problem for the students in general due that they are using one of the most prestigious agencies on your country. When you said literally "How do you make the jump from a list of universities which AUAP claims have accepted their evaluations to any kind of conclusion about the legitimacy of this "school", you are showing yourself the problem. People belive that AUAP means legallity, otherwise what is the purpose of this agencies?. This is what make your educational system so problematic. I am only past you the information that I found about this, and the reference that the law in France is real, and the PLA against many posts showed here, is a really way for a serious goverment. The way that PLA is doing is another question.

    I will like to recomend this univeristy http://www.uned-usa.org/ if someone is looking for a DL FULL ACREDITED IN EUROPE, 25 countries, and southamerica, NA by the spanish government you can take this. All about this university is done directly with the spanish embassy so nobody will make any confuse. So if I have to make any recomendation this will be my elecction. Problablyif you can join they will be cheaper than others DL in USA. If you have any more doubts I will post in spanish.

    De acuerdo mi amigo?. La ley francesa trata de dar credibilidad sobre todo a licenciados universitarios que poseen experiencia acreditada en otra area de estudio diferente de la de su licenciatura y a profesionales acreditados, pero en ningún modo permite a alguien sin ningún tipo de estudios, sin el bachillerato previo a la universidad, por mucha experiencia que tenga en su campo acceder a una titulación universitaria, si permite la de Especialista Universitario, pero eso no es un licenciatura, aunque se acepta en el mercado laboral. Para asegurarse se deben aportar informes de los centros en donde se desempeñó el trabajo, pruebas documentadas de los estudios y cursos profesionales realizados etc. incluso informes de la Seguridad Social para comprobar que efectivamente se estuvo dado de alta como trabajador en esa empresa. Además prima a los franceses o ciudadanos residentes en territorio francés, o territorio anglófono. No es algo tan simple como rellenar un cuestionario de la TC&U. Desconozco si se puede acreditar ese sistema como universidad extranjera en USA, pero para ser extranjera en USA, primero ha de estar reconocida como tal en Europa, eso es lo que efectivamente no está claro en el caso de esta universidad. Pero si tienes en cuenta de la mano de quien se anuncia en USA, AUAP, es conveniente tener cuidado con lo que se afirma hasta que no se tenga la absoluta evidencia. Espero que esto te sirva para no olvidar el español. Un abrazo desde España con Ñ, no desde Spain, Unkle
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2004
  9. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    I am happy that you are not a potential "student" at this "school." What you and I are both observing is how a plausible-sounding organization can invoke irrelevant laws in a multitude of jurisdictions to make themselves look good. Whether this is the fault of the US educational system I will leave to others.
    My belief is that there is plenty of blame to go around internationally, too.

    Certainly UNED is a good recomendation. There have been posts by others here, some time ago, about Spanish-language distance learning. A search might turn up some interesting information.

    I read Spanish very poorly, but I know there are others who can engage the issues in that portion of your post in a constructive way. I hope this method gets us past any language barriers.

    Multumesc foarte mult, Janko
  10. milotach

    milotach New Member

    I am absolutly agree on it. The RA is a tool that tray to resolve the problem in a private way, but if the cost will be low many of the non RA will reach this without problems, after or before, someone on government should think about this, if they are giving feredal founds for scholarship to students on RA universities, whay not to give it to school to became on RA?. Any case my friend I only give my opinion not advices.

    Finally I belive that diploma mill can sell to you a pice of paper but they can not give it to you an education. A monkey dreseed on silk, is still a monkey, as we say in spain. There was a frog that fall down into an oil pull under a tractor on a farm. In its way he passed between the hens and some parts of the plumage was patched on its body. Whem it finally arraived back to the forest, its was looking like a bird. He realize this and was walking on a ridiculous way jumping like a frog, but for the others ignorants animals it was strange but they accepted like a bird. What is the moral of the history?, you will see, some day in the middle of a bird,s forum our frog was questionated about the music of the birds songs, and our friend could not say nothing less than CROAK, CROAK.

    Sorry for my bad english, but as you know I am a writter and journalist and I taked this short history from one of my books, that could explain certanly the problem of a diploma mill. A good example is sometimes better than a long explain.
  11. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

  12. galanga

    galanga New Member

    UFRS and AED

    Milotach might not be interested in "The University Francophone Robert de Sorbon" but our friends in the inland northwest are. Take a look at the large black-on-black field at the bottom of http://www.advancedu.org/. If you select the apparently empty region you'll find a large amount of text hidden there. For example:
    But that's not all-- there is text related to Concordia College and University, as well as Almeda College.

    This is truly a ringing endorsement.

  13. Denver

    Denver Member

    I wonder what happens if I play it backwards?
  14. Mike Albrecht

    Mike Albrecht New Member

    You will hear Mick Jagger and have bad dreams about him singing to you.
  15. alain michal

    alain michal member


    Let me introduce, myself, I am Alain Michal from the Université Robert de Sorbon. Contrary to some "members" of the forum, I do not hide that I am from the university.

    I am sad and revolted, for our students, by what some people are writing about us with no knowledge.

    The fact that the VAE (Validation des Acquis de l'Expérience) Law exist, is an important development. It is a Law signed by the French Government headed, in 2002 by Lionel Jospin. It is the official validation process that many were waiting.

    We use scrupulously the VAE tough procedure (French are very strict on education) and publish the text of law on our pages. www.sorbonedu.com/sorbonengl.html (English pages)

    Speaking of "Set Up" is frivoulous and libelous.

    Our institution is recognized by a French speaking (francophonie) government, which is linked by an educational treaty (included in our pages) with France. This accreditation (the term is not totally correct in France) is valid and applies to the countries Member of the agence intergouvernemental de la francophonie.

    Moreover we just get the authorisation to open in September under the name of Ecole supérieure universitaire Robert de Sorbon as "un Etablissement secondaire d'enseignement privé" in France. We will be allowed to deliver under the State control : Maîtrise, DEA. DES and Phd. The term, Licence is reserved like the term Docteur to French Public Universities.

    Lets talk about our "Jury des déliberations":

    let me tell you that it is a real one with PhD holders and tenured professors and that it follows the VAE procedure. It really examines in depth the contributions of the applicants. It takes 60 days to deliberate.

    I am amazed by the quality of many files presented
    (some with more than 200 pages).

    However we turn down 40% of the applicants, while refunding them (is not it Mr. French?).

    Contrary to the US based Diploma Mills, we do not "sell" diploma with different prices according to the level but bestow Degrees that are recognized as equivalent to the ones granted by US regionally accredited institution of higher education. We follow the reasonable French Public university prices for VAE. We also have a refundable application fee. The only difference is that we accept also English only speaking persons, while with the public French universities you must do all the procedure in French.

    Sometimes, I think we were wrong to do it in English, when I see the angry comments and unfair from people that do not know the real legal and academic situation.

    I confirm that we have no ownership ties with AUAP, which recognises like other evaluators our Université.

    I confirm that our two educational institutions of education are, contrary to AUAP, non profit and that our diplomas have, the legal and ethical foundation.

    I thought that Americans were open minded and open to new ideas and enterprises, I see that some jaleous for profit competitors are not like that.

    I am ready to respond personally to any questions at [email protected]

    Please excuse my poor English, as I am French and my second language is Italian.


    Attached Files:

  16. Dennis Ruhl

    Dennis Ruhl member

    What many people may find strange is that you both have the same Florida address and it has been reported that the tuition payment goes to AUAP. But I'm probably wrong.
  17. alain michal

    alain michal member

    You are unfortunately wrong about Université Francophone Robert de Sorbon www.sorbonedu.com/sorbonengl.html.

    It is true that we now use Paypal as our other credit US card provider "Pay-Line" seems to be bankrupt and they owe us money. By the way do you know this US company based in Colorado? WE HAVE BEEN "SET UP"...:)

    Please go go to our site and you will see that Paypal bill under our company name. Please check and pay you will see that it is not AUAP. Do not worry I will refund you ! LOL

    Our adresse in the USA for English to French translation is now in Maine. We used AUAP service for translations (you see my poor English) but they were too expensive! Please check the Maine and French statutes of incoporation if you are not convinced !

    It is funny that you did not comment about the core of my arguments.

    1) Is the VAE Law real?
    2) Are we recognized ?
    3) Is our VAE process and jury serious ?

    If you doubt about the quality of our Jury I can ask you to look at one of its admission process the only problem is that it is done in French language but you are welcomed, if you provide us details of your academic background. You will have also to respect the CNIL Law of France and Privacy Laws of the United States.

    I like my job I like Université francophone Robert de Sorbon www.sorbonedu.com/sorbonengl.html and I really think that the VAE is a French legal procedure that is very interesting and adapoted to our times.

    We do not ask for the "benefit of the doubt". We are not Mr. Simpson or Mr Peterson. Please judge us on facts and realities not hear say !

    Thank you anyhow for your response.
    "De la discussion jaillit la lumière"
  18. Dennis Ruhl

    Dennis Ruhl member

    Separated the connections - good. Didn't look right.

    North Americans, as you have seen, can be a tough audience.
  19. Dennis Ruhl

    Dennis Ruhl member

  20. alain michal

    alain michal member

    Info from Université Robert de Sorbon

    About the French system, here are some informations from the université francophone Robert de Sorbon

    Starting this year the French Universities may switch to the new common European system 3/5/8 Licence-Mastère-Doctorat.

    We see a diadantage for North Americans. As normally the 3 year license will not be recognizable as equivalent to a Bachelor degree and the 5 year "Mastaire" will not be equal to a US Master.

    Our students will have the choice of the two curriculums:

    1) The traditional one DEUG (2y) Licence (3y), Maîtrise (4y) DEA/DESS/Doctorat(5Y) with the Université Francophone Robert de Sorbon.

    2) The new French(3/5/8) one with the Ecole Supérieure Universitaire Robert de Sorbon.

    Alain Michal

    An English Citation from Thomas Carlyle "France was a long despotism tempered by epigrams"

    Attached Files:

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