Université Francophone Robert de Sorbon

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by [email protected], Apr 14, 2004.

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  1. I have received a refund of $60.00 to my Pay Pal account for the money I paid to Sorbon for their evaluation. One can't imagine the amount of controversy this has generated over the last 12 hours.
     
  2. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    My dear Mr French:
    I felt fine before. I feel fine now. Thanks for your good wishes, though. If to say " the proof's in the pudding" equals harshness, unforgiveness, and fundamentalism, I guess it will have to equal those things.

    I concur with Ham and Bill Dayson's most recent posts.

    Let me restate: chagrin over wasting money does not equal contrition, not really. Changed actions are the evidence of contrition (in this context, retraction of personal attacks in the fora where they were made and constructive future participation in future discussions of DL).

    If that is more than you wish to see, well and good. But leave the snide comments about religion out of it. After all, I am not a fundamentalist, but Reverend Ray may well be.

    Now, if you feel better, let us return to topic, that is, if there is anything more to say about Sorbon after the sorry chase in which we have had to engage in order to stop a campaign of shilling and abuse.

    Yours cordially,
    Janko
    (who has been a cleric quite long enough to have a fairly well-tuned bullshit detector)
     
  3. ham

    ham member

    a "university" using payp@l??!!
    that's another big red flag that would turn to shame the former red army!
    That "payment gateway" is an hotbed of fraudulent, gray area and "garage sales" kind of "smuggling" business.
     
  4. gmail

    gmail member

    You are all right and wrong !

    I just returned from France, as I have decided to switch the subject of my doctoral thesis to the French VAE Law.

    Here is objectively what I found.

    A) The VAE exists and is applied now more aggressively. French institutions originally, as Mr. Ham said rightfully, did not like it and were very reticent . However the action of de Sorbon seems to have change slightly their attitude and some (rather small and provincial) public universities, such as St. Etienne, issue now full VAE degrees.

    B) The situation about the mandatory personal interview is complex. The Law says in Art 6. “Le Jury s’entretien avec le candidat.” De Sorbon pretends that an “Entretien” does not mean always a physical meeting, but could be an Internet or telephone interview. I researched the meaning of “entretien” in the Robert Dictionary and it implies notion of “face to face meeting”.

    However the Académie Française dictionary, which is the legal reference, does not and includes even definitions of “entretien radiophoniques et télévisés”, which involve electronic communications. The ball is still on the air and only a French judge could decide it.

    C) Sorbon, I check it in a face to face “entretien” at the Education Nationale, is definitely legally a “French Institution of Higher Education”(établissement d'enseignement supérieur). They are, not as said previous, a High School, a Votech or a "Karaté school".

    D) Sorbon cannot issue degrees in the name of the French Government (“au nom de l’état”) like all French private institutions. Private does not automatically mean bad. HEC, ESSEC are examples of high quality education.

    E) I met in Poitiers Alain Michal, He is abrasive, not sympathetic at all, and “African French”. Monsieur de la Faide was much more helpful . About the paymernt procedure I do not see Paypal as a "fraudulent" enterprise. I have been told that RDS applicants, that do not want to use Paypal can pay with French checks or by wiring the money to RDS local French bank account, which seems Kosher to me.

    F) It seems that de Sorbon has restrictive admission procedures, which are different from the known diploma mills. Thanks to de la Faide, I had access to one screening process of an applicant for a Master in mathematics. A Math researcher from an accredited UK university - PhD candidate screened him at the initial stage (admission) and his questions were on:

    1. Algebra:
    Groups Theory Rings.
    Modules, Modules over PID (espacially Z and k[x])
    Elementary linear algebra
    Number Theory (algebraic, elliptic curves, analytic)

    2. Analysis:
    Integration (lebesgues measure, integrals, Convergence theorems...)
    Functional Analysis (Baire thm, Lp spaces, Arzela-Ascoli theorem, Stone-
    Weierstrass theorem, Hilbert spaces, Banach space, Sobolev spaces...)

    3.Topology:
    Basic definition, compactness, connectedness... Algebraic topology (Fundamental groups, covering space, homology, cohomology...)

    I did not see any jury deliberation from RDS.

    Frankly I am not a mathematician. Could you please tell me if it is a valid approach in line with regular Math studies at the Master level ?

    My personal first impression: RDS is legal, not a diploma mill but is not at the level of the public Parisian universities.

    I know that the above will probably irate Sorbon supporters and foes but this is what I found…
     
  5. In general terms, I ask the question. Is it acceptable for a accreditation evaluator to go to bed with the University? How can the evaluator remain objective in seeing academic standards are maintained if they also can potentially benefit also from the profits?
     
  6. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Re: You are all right and wrong !



    A very simple question Degree mill hunter. If I pay RDS the 600 USD for a PhD evaluation, Would I be able to get a PhD equivalency in the US so I can teach at a RA University in the US? If my employer calls the French embassy, would they validate my degree? Can I get into a PhD program based on a RDS Master's degree? or at the very least, Would I be able to register as a PhD student in a French university with my master's degree granted by RDS?

    Anything else is irrelevant information to me as a potential student. They might have some legal status or whatever, but if I cannot use their degree to me it is a useless procedure.
     
  7. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    Hi Ray: The answer to your question about a university & accreditor in bed together is a categorical NO! There is no instance of this happening with a legitimate accreditor (RA, NA, reputable foreign/GAAP) and a legitimate university. I was going to say one or the other is less-than-wonderful, but thinking about it, both must be so for the in-bed relationship to happen. It's inherently corrupt.
     
  8. ham

    ham member

    so we start back from ground zero.

    In general terms, I ask the question. Is it acceptable for a accreditation evaluator to go to bed with the University? How can the evaluator remain objective in seeing academic standards are maintained if they also can potentially benefit also from the profits?

    Only within the gray area US system this question makes sense.
    Of course, when you have 45 accrediting bodies of varying standing, then you may wonder whether the first newcomer is a bonafide accreditor/evaluator/whatever.
    In Canada, Italy etc such process is concern of state committees at state universities and/or at a nationwide/provincial level ( oftentimes you must clear both stages ).
    In Italy you'd have to:
    - get a diplomatic certified italian copy of your foreign credentials from the local italian authority (not just the consulate ). They will contact your former institution themselves.
    - start a particular procedure at a state university with the involvement of the Rome ministry.
    In the USA the first conman can come out of nowhere & pose as an evaluator...


    A very simple question Degree mill hunter. If I pay RDS the 600 USD for a PhD evaluation, Would I be able to get a PhD equivalency in the US so I can teach at a RA University in the US? If my employer calls the French embassy, would they validate my degree? Can I get into a PhD program based on a RDS Master's degree? or at the very least, Would I be able to register as a PhD student in a French university with my master's degree granted by RDS?

    There is the opinion of the french authorities elsewhere here.

    I have been told that RDS applicants, that do not want to use Paypal can pay with French checks or by wiring the money to RDS local French bank account, which seems Kosher to me.

    Sure.
    even Nigeria $ scams; Mail-order-bride scams & any scam for this matter accept $ via wire & WU.
    The problem is, PayP@l is a shady system with little disclosure, good for people who dislike disclosure.
    I mean, you're wiring money to a guy behind "[email protected]".

    F) It seems that de Sorbon has restrictive admission procedures, which are different from the known diploma mills. Thanks to de la Faide, I had access to one screening process of an applicant for a Master in mathematics. A Math researcher from an accredited UK university - PhD candidate screened him at the initial stage (admission) and his questions were on:

    it takes 45 seconds to steal syllabi from a traditional university.
    The rest, you just have no idea.
    Otherwise there'd be no "doctored" or "bribed" exam in this world, yet there are PLENTY thereof.

    D) Sorbon cannot issue degrees in the name of the French Government (“au nom de l’état”) like all French private institutions. Private does not automatically mean bad. HEC, ESSEC are examples of high quality education.

    ?????????????????
    another "jedi mind trick" to confuse gullible americans.
    There are private institution that are recognized in the capacity of a state one, besides state ones.
    RDS is neither.

    C) Sorbon, I check it in a face to face “entretien” at the Education Nationale, is definitely legally a “French Institution of Higher Education”(établissement d'enseignement supérieur). They are, not as said previous, a High School, a Votech or a "Karaté school".

    bullsh!t.
    NAME YOUR SOURCES SO WE CAN ASK THE SAME QUESTION & GET THE SAME ANSWER BACK.


    Thanks to de la Faide
    Do you use random name generating scripts for that?
    I mean, ok we are accustomed to one person running 12 aliases, but now that the Michal fish stinks, have you managed to trap this new one in your net?

    this is what I found…

    this is what you claim.
    - there is no source disclosure
    - it conflicts with your previous stand on this
    - there are quite a few people "seeing the light" these days, but i think they're just trying to reword an old concept gone sour, to see if they can make it with a doctored, revised version equally preying upon the american unawareness of the french system by making confuse reference to their multi-tier, private system (bad analogy).
    For example, once RDS used to be a "french university"; then they were forced to admit it is no french university. Thinking of profit loss, they thought they'd play mind games dragging self-serving definitions of everything into the picture, from what "committee interview" means to what "private" is.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 29, 2004
  9. gmail

    gmail member

    Why are you so mean and personal ?

    Dear Ham,

    Greetings-Salve from the US Hartland, (but a rare Blue state).

    I just tried to share an experience with the forum. I am researching the VAE, not Sorbon, for my doctorate thesis. Why are you are now systematically trashing me.? It is not fair.

    Contrary to you, through my research, I noted that you were right several times. I will not criticize you, and I respect your point of view as you are a senior member, probably older and with less academic credentials than me.

    Why do you act systematically like a Spanish inquisitor of the XVI century? Do you think that people can change mind and tell what they think and are. Torquemada seems to be your idol, me it is Elie Weisel, Gandhi or Martin Luther King.

    The world would be much better if we trust each other more.

    For example, I think that your repeated mention of Cannibal Islands in this forum is not proper, not PC and insensitive, but I will not label you as "racist".

    Even critics in this forum confirmed that the éducation nationale wrote them that Robert de Sorbon is a legal "Etablissement d'Education Supérieure"

    Why asking names when you do not want to cite your source? I trust you, you trust me, will it not be better? Are you a judge or a "Procuratore"...?

    Many people of that forum thought at the beginning that the VAE was an invention and a scam. VAE is a reality whith different type of applications. One of them being your restictive point of view.

    About the math screening of a de Sorbon candidate, I checked the credential of the Math screener. He is real and I can tell you that he is a Math researcher with the highest stipend of his fully accredited university. Between you and me he is like the guy of the "Beautiful mind movie” very real but I should stay 'strange". I assure you that he did not pick his stuff from a syllabi. Why do you only consider the negative and the evil everywhere? Just accept it as a fact, with no offense.

    Robert de Sorbon on that case (I do not say all cases) used a genuine qualified screener for its application process .

    You go so far in your hate that now you trash paypal :

    FYI I wrote to Paypal and here is their response.

    "PayPal provides the world's first instant and secure online payment service.
    ....
    With a customer base of more than 50 million and continuing to grow rapidly, PayPal is the world's largest Internet-based payment network. PayPal is the #1 eFinance site on the Internet, according to PC Data Online, and one of the fastest growing websites, according to Media Metrix. PayPal now constitutes over 10% of all Internet traffic in the financial services category, more than Citibank, Wells Fargo and Bank of America combined. "

    Founded in December 1998 by Peter Thiel and Max Levchin, PayPal is headquartered in San Jose, California. PayPal was named one of the 50 Most Important Private Companies in the World by Red Herring, one of theTop 25 New Companies by Fortune Small Business, and a Forbes Favorite Website in the magazine's latest 'Best of the Web' issue."

    This is a point of view, you have yours. I really think you are too extreme.

    I think that you have valid points but your hate of the VAE goes too far and obstructs your judgment.

    Education is evolving we are in the XXI century. Could you confirm that Italy is opening also its Higher education? I heard that private business schools are growing there. Is it true what do you think of it ? I will trust you on that.

    Historically Distance learning was also trashed by many, but is now widely accepted.

    I think that the French VAE is a start of a new trend on work experience. The French are the first to really institionalize the work experience through a Law with precise procedures.

    Lets just quitely agree on that!
     
  10. gmail

    gmail member

    Addendum

    I have the "stair case spirit" like Rousseau, I forget one point.

    Mr. Ham was right: De Sorbon is not a "université". It is legally an "institution d'enseignement supérieur" (Institution of Higher Education).

    Why?

    1) Universités in France are by law not selective and must accept any Baccalauréat holder. The prestigious ENA (public), Ecole Polytechnique (public) , Sciences Pô (public ) are not "universités" but "écoles or instituts". Nor the "grandes écoles" like Mines, HEC and ESSEC (private).

    2) "Universités" must be public in France.

    I consider that French private or public institutions of Higher Educations could be called in" American English" Universities. The difference is somewhat similar to the one between University and College in the States.

    Terminato!
     
  11. ham

    ham member

    Why asking names when you do not want to cite your source?

    what you say is a farce.
    All emails i quoted came with full headers, message IDs & of course recipient's addresses.
    I don't expect anybody to believe me just because i'm a good boy.
    Now let's see what you come up with, won't you?

    VAE is a reality whith different type of applications.

    Ok.
    Understood.
    VAE is the french equivalent of PLAR, left to the assessment of committees sitting at state universities according to a law whose practical meaning doesn't shine too bright even to french eyes.
    However no need to mud waters to confuse americans even more.
    Suffice is to say VAE=PLAR.
    All the rest is self-serving water mudding degree mill practice.

    are a senior member, probably older and with less academic credentials than me.

    Unlike the Michal clones ( all claiming to have been in Italy; all shilling RDS; all posting the same "good news" minutes apart, like the "Florida university letter" ) i am not interested in becoming a WWW superstar.
    You know nothing about me & your lines prove it beyond belief.
    What we all know about you ( & your several aliases ) is in the open for everyone to see.

    Keep diverting the attention from the main topic. Perhaps this will confuse someone & get RDS business.


    Even critics in this forum confirmed that the éducation nationale wrote them that Robert de Sorbon is a legal "Etablissement d'Education Supérieure"

    Bullsh!t.
    They just said once it is a law 1901 school and were pointing out:
    RDS is not a university ( and grande ecole, HEC are universities. The name is just a cultural, not factual factor )
    We'd better look elsewhere when seeking real VAE procedures.

    you trash paypal

    I just see no traditional or else DL chartered university using this low end, minimal disclosure payment methods.
    To your credit, it is very popular among shady business such as Ebay auctions; degree mills etc.
    Business that would have no chances to get accepted by a real bank or a real processor because of the risky nature (potentially unlawful ) of the transaction.

    I heard that private business schools are growing there. Is it true what do you think of it ? I will trust you on that.

    I typed elsewhere there are dozens of private outfits like that.
    Too bad they are not recognized; hence their degrees are (very expensive) toilet paper.

    The French are the first to really institionalize the work experience through a Law with precise procedures.

    I don't care what the french do.
    I know PLAR is a very old concept & every established university has a say about it.
    Too bad it won't translate in a "bam wham thank you ma'am" 30 days UPS degree for 600$, issued from Kamerun yet postmarked from Trimouille.

    For example, I think that your repeated mention of Cannibal Islands in this forum is not proper, not PC and insensitive, but I will not label you as "racist".

    Sorry.
    That has already been tried in various shapes & forms.
    I can live with that; yet you & your aliases can't live with RDS being no french university.
    Too bad you have to earn your referral fee this way.


    I checked the credential of the Math screener. He is real and I can tell you

    again: it is a CLAIM of YOURS only.
    We had a fair share thereof with the Buxton University thread.
    They all where sure BU had campuses, advisors etc.
    Too bad they could name NONE.

    I consider that French private or public institutions of Higher Educations could be called in" American English" Universities. The difference is somewhat similar to the one between University and College in the States.

    do you think we all are morons?

    These "jedi mind tricks" would fool only a third grader.
    1 you can't compare different educational systems same as you can't add apples to oranges.
    2 In Canada College is an intermediary step between high school & university (DEC ); in the USA college is just another name for university (less classy if you wish). In the beginning they used to differ; yet nowadays the difference is limited.
    the fact you insist on these conflicting & superposed details shows your target is the unaware american public.
    3 "Napoleon freed all german anseatic cities"
    " Wrong. Danzig was never freed!"
    " I said GERMAN anseatic cities. Danzig is a polish anseatic city".
    Schonpenhauer gives this example.
    This applies well to your water mudding approach, like "RDS" is a "higher learning outfit" (What the hell does THAT mean? ).
    You keep more options open expecting a rebuttal.
    Collegio in Italy is typically a live-in private (usually religious-run ) high school: see how far it goes?

    1) Universités in France are by law not selective and must accept any Baccalauréat holder. The prestigious ENA (public), Ecole Polytechnique (public) , Sciences Pô (public ) are not "universités" but "écoles or instituts". Nor the "grandes écoles" like Mines, HEC and ESSEC (private).

    Water mudding, self-serving statement: some faculties or courses of study are NOT selective; many are.
    the name differs only because of a cultural factor, not a factual one.
    You have universities with 56 names, then you have what isn't a university.
    Usually science politique is a departement or a faculté.
    Ecole like IEP is just another name.
    Yet you can't trade a rip-off like RDS under ANY of these fancy names.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 29, 2004
  12. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    Mourir pour Dantzig? or, Solidarnosc forever, or Hansa cross the sea against mills...

    Back before the Great Patriotic War, a certain type of gutter, foul, subhuman, racially degenerate sorry simulacrum of a Frenchman, i.e. a French fascist rather than a true Frenchman, used to whine about the possibility of dying for Danzig (Gdansk).

    Now look. Reverend Ray finally gets his ducks in a row--he says and we hope--and the same old crap is being slung all over again. Note the shill rhetoric: when an assertion is questioned, the questioner (ham) gets called mean, etc.

    Just wait. The shill will proceed--just watch, mes chuckwallas--to engage in vicious personal abuse when his/her/its tergiversations and naked bullroar get picked apart, starting with the simplest of all things, namely, sharing of sources to make independent verification of extraordinary claims possible.

    A personal aside: despite the BS peddled on certain other fora, degreeinfo posters have never said unanimously "RA or no way". I certainly have never said that, or thought it, or diplomatically shied away from stating repeatedly that there are some other legitimate educational providers, although their utility may well be restricted. But when I see the relentless shilling for Sore Buns, I can understand why some say "RA or no way". It cuts down on this sort of stuff quite a bit.

    We could use some cannibals around here with a taste for, um, shillfish.Or some good Danziger eels.

    Go get 'em, ham. As Marshal Foch used to say, "l'attaque, l'attaque, toujours l'attaque."

    P.S. As I stood up for multiple Gandhis against the routine misspelling of their name by political Scheissekuenstler, so I stand up for my distinguished fellow Carpathian against our Sore Buns shill: it's Elie W-I-E-S-E-L.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 29, 2004
  13. ham

    ham member

    I misspell as well, like where vs were or other keyboard mysteries i cannot amend as when i come back later, posting time has expired.

    Scheissekuenstler

    i can't see "art" in all of that: just the desperate, out-of-mind attempt to save a sinking business whose only (reasonable/likely) target are gullible americans trusting enough to buy the jedi mind tricks above.

    however

    What our shill is lacking is simple understanding of a logic human mind.
    Schopenhauer in a 20 pages booklet summarized all the "tricks" one might pull to be right despite where the truth in the matter is.
    Hence it tries to divert attention from the simple fact RDS is not a french university under any denomination.
    There is no in-between.
    There is no "a quarter" or "three fifths and a half " of a chartered university.
    All the rest are non chartered schools delving into many noble & justified "higher education" endeavours.
    An high school qualifies (here called SCUOLA SUPERIORE ); a stenotyping school qualifies; a pedicurist school qualifies.

    however

    what does an US citizen do with such a "degree"?

    I have never questioned gmail credentials:
    1 i have no way to know
    2 i don't care
    3 we're on the WWW: every men has at least 6 figure income tax free, a porsche & a big penis; all women are slim models in their teens attending women's studies college.

    A personal aside: despite the BS peddled on certain other fora, degreeinfo posters have never said unanimously "RA or no way". I certainly have never said that, or thought it, or diplomatically shied away from stating repeatedly that there are some other legitimate educational providers, although their utility may well be restricted. But when I see the relentless shilling for Sore Buns, I can understand why some say "RA or no way". It cuts down on this sort of stuff quite a bit.

    I think at best ( but i'm NOT sure ) RDS might unfavourably compare to some one-state-only US school, ex CA or GA approved.
    There are people here too, who made a career starting with "registered" schools like a stenotyping or clerical or vocational school.
    Fine.
    You can't add apples to carrots (what would you get? a salad bowl? ), hence you can't compare these vocational schools to chartered universities.

    Again, it is impossible to compare the US & the european education on a A+B=C basis.
    You only go by wild guesses & approximate workloads.
     
  14. gmail

    gmail member

    Mean mean mean

    Dear Ham,

    Why are you systematically insulting the people, instead of discussing? The use of Supersized Fonts reveals a certain agitation.

    It is insulting to say that I get a referring fee from Robert de Sorbon, as I am a TA in a Public US University. It can simply cost my job.. But you probably do not care. You love to act ostensibly like an elephant in a chinaware store...

    Are you sure that your idol was not killed in Dongo long time ago? (This is mean, but I am sure that only few people will understand)

    Please stop and be more serious and reasonable. Insults and badmouthing are the weapons of a weak & insecure person.

    I never insulted you; I was always respectful

    How many times I wrote you were right? (3 or 4)

    How many times you trash me? (100+, simply because I do not agree sometimes with you, then I am automatically paid by de Sorbon, etc, etc...)

    Could it stop for at least a day, please! Not for me but, for the sake of the other forum members.

    By the way on my favorite scholarly subject I do not think that VAE is similar to PLAR at all.

    The big difference is: VAE is institutionalized through a national Law and is part of a National Education Code. Its procedures iare well defined. Therefore all French universities must apply the procedure , unlike the PLAR. It does not mean that they have to grant degrees of course.! However it is a great evolution for me.

    Legally, an applicant may force a French university to review his or her experiential credential.

    I am not mudding the water in confirming k that Sorbon is defined legally as an "Institution of Higher Education" like many other private entities, not a "pedicurist school".
    Why arguing about the obvious?

    Could we have a more decent discussion without mentioning "Cannibals" "Penis" "6 figures income"and trashing anybody, which idoes not agree 100% with you?

    Terminato and not V F...

    By the way....

    Multumesc to uncle janko or Kossonum... depending of your transylvanian etnicity not to mention the Schwabs...

    Was it Marcel Déat who invented "Ne pas Mourir pour Danzig", I am not sure?

    La Revedere....
     
  15. ham

    ham member

    The use of Supersized Fonts reveals a certain agitation.

    The use of poor syllogistic methods to mud waters reveals not only a vested interest, but poor logic skills as well.

    You love to act ostensibly like an elephant in a chinaware store...

    and you act like a degree mill shill, trying to foster doubts & to confuse matters where only a simple answer comes to mind:

    ECOLE SUPERIEURE/UNIVERSITE ROBERT DE SORBON IS NOT A RECOGNIZED FRENCH UNIVERSITY; NOT A REPLACEMENT FOR ONE; NOT ONE UNDER ANOTHER DENOMINATION

    The rest -i agree- is just personal opinion & what would americans do with a "degree" based on some WWW e-individual opinion?

    How many times you trash me?

    There are inconsistencies tied to your posting activity; there is evidence multiple aliases are being used in this RDS debate.
    The rest, who you are; how "educated" you might be etc, i said i do not care at all. Stop the rhétorique du ressentiment as it fools nobody.

    By the way on my favorite scholarly subject I do not think that VAE is similar to PLAR at all.

    of course this is instrumental to the RDS outfit claims to fame. Otherwise how could they con unsuspecting americans?

    PLAR is old news everywhere.
    Sure it is not going to convert into moreless "instant" degrees the way RDS does.
    That is RDS's "cutting edge".
    However with my laser color printer i am even faster than a guy in Kamerun.

    Are you sure that your idol was not killed in Dongo long time ago?

    Benito Mussolini died there.

    the RDS farce, its lies; its poor escamotages are dying here & now.

    KEEP DIVERTING ATTENTION FROM THE MAIN TOPIC. PERHAPS THAT WILL MEAN ONE MORE CLIENT.

    Now what's your next pick?
    not Mussolini again i hope.

    Insults and badmouthing are the weapons of a weak & insecure person.

    That's exactly why you keep diverting attention from the main topic.
     
  16. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Re: Why are you so mean and personal ?

    Dear gmail,

    Your continued attempts at trying to redirect the focus on this degree mill onto the French VAE process is transparent and getting rather old. I have not seen anyone question the VAE process. It is the degree mill that has been exposed and criticized as a fraud, not the VAE process. Bill Dayson even started up a separate thread to discuss the VAE process and IIRC it only got a couple of responses before passing into inactive oblivion (which IIRC you didn't post there so it would seem to show that you're not really as interested in the VAE as you pretend).
     
  17. gmail

    gmail member

    Why are you not open minded like me?

    How many times should I be "transparent" to convince you ?

    I NEVER USED MULTIPLE ALIASES. IT IS WRONG AND FALSE I AM OFFENDED why are you Mr. Ham so mean ? Is it because you have weak arguments? Did I ever disrespect you? Is it because I am a 25 years old girl with a passion for higher education.

    Please do not assume things that you cannot and wil not prove , like me being "on the take". as I told you I can lose my job for that . You do not care, I think you proved it!

    You hate the VAE and Sorbon it is your right.

    VAE and Sorbon are different subjects, I agree.

    However:
    You can probaly admit that nobody knewabout the VAE in the USA] before Sorbon promoted it

    Right or Wrong? There were in this forum no threads about it.

    At the beginning, I remember, a bright person (??) pretending he was from NARIC Canada wrote, in that forum, that the VAE Law was a fake, because it was signed by 4 French ministers...[LOL

    I trusted him because of his prestigious affiliation, just to see that he was totally wrong . Could we agree at least also on that ?

    It is a bad attitude to trash me and refuse any scintilla of evidence. You are so one-sided, contrary to me, that I will look as an apologist of Sorbon and I am not!

    I have no link with de Sorbon (whatever you think) and I criticized them (cf. the face to face interview), I think fairly.

    Ham said previously also that "he had no trace of Sorbon in any French publication "but it was nevertheless published at the Journal officiel and registered officially (mistake or....??).

    People could be wrong with good motivation.

    Ham absolutely does not want to talk seriously about an educational problem. Do you think that mixing "Penis, trashing Paypal, & naming africans (I am Caucasian) as cannibals" is serious and should be part of an academic discussion? Ham has some good points but ruins it by a "Delirium extravaganza". He used the conspiracy theory at its worst.

    My point of view is that De Sorbon is definitely not Harvard, nor attain the quality of a public Parisian university.

    However according me it is not a fraud as it is a legally registered institution of higher education from France.

    Fraud implies felony, crime or legal wrongdoing.
    Fraud is a felony in the US or France .

    I think, but I am not quite sure, that the Sorbon screening process is decent. I looked at it (I confess only in only one case). I could be wrong but Sorboninterview of the Math applicant seemed to me professional. (But I a not a math expert ).

    If it is a fraud, could anabody prove me the two following facts about the French Ecole Supérieure Robert de Sorbon:

    1) They are not legal in France and they are they not a French Institution of Higher Education.

    2) They not allowed to confer degrees in France.

    Yes or no ?

    The rest is a question of appreciation and judgment not "Fraud".

    Regards, but could we calm down and exchange ideas without shooting and using superzided annoying fonts.
     
  18. kcfile

    kcfile New Member

    If it is a fraud, could anabody prove me the two following facts about the French Ecole Supérieure Robert de Sorbon:

    1) They are not legal in France and they are they not a French Institution of Higher Education.

    2) They not allowed to confer degrees in France.

    Yes or no ?

    The rest is a question of appreciation and judgment not "Fraud".

    Regards, but could we calm down and exchange ideas without shooting and using superzided annoying fonts.


    __________________
    The Diploma Mill Hunter


    I agreed the above questions should be confirmed at first! So, can anyone prove it is ILLEGAL, NOT A FRENCH INSTITUTION OF HIGHER EDUCATION WITHOUT DEGREE GRANTING POWER? Did it break the law in France?

    I checked the website of this institution; it never mentioned it was a public or state owned French institution. So, will this private institution be accepted by French government for applying a job or other French universities for further study?

    Since it is a French institution, it is not a matter whether it is accredited in USA or not!
     
  19. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    What We have Here is a Failure to Appreciate? Naah.

    What do you do? Just keep asking the same off-point questions over and over until you get the answers you want?

    Then you imply that eef ett ees Franch les pauvres americannibales zey have no right to jadge. Come off it! Nothing the French government has said--as documented by honest folk, not argued from silence by shills--has lent any credence to Sore Buns.

    By the way, thank you for telling us that you are Caucasian. How special for you! :rolleyes:
     
  20. ham

    ham member

    I NEVER USED MULTIPLE ALIASES.

    sure Kcfile is "le produit d'un météor": same arguments; same odd point to prove.
    How miserable.


    1) They are not legal in France and they are they not a French Institution of Higher Education.

    they are an association devoted to higher learning. They're "registered" ( which doesn't mean chartered or authorized by the government ) at some city hall in the capacity (who knows) of some low end vocational "school" like a pedicurist or stenotypist one. French authorities have repeatedly stated they are NOT a french university under any denomination.

    Then you twist words how much you like, with this "higher learning" bait.
    Oh wait...that's what degree mills have in common: use anonymous definitions, which are source of controversy & open to interpretation.
    At RDS they might be "high" as you want & "learning" as you want,
    yet
    RDS is not a french university ( grande ecole, IEP, whatever); not one whole; not a fifth and a half of a quarter of a french state chartered university (IEP, Grande Ecole etc ).

    it is not a fraud

    1 they claimed to have appeared in the french govt gazette: false.
    2 they claimed they were a "french university": false.
    3 they had no clear answer about the nationality of the outfit; the actual degree granting authority ( have you forgotten the earlier ramblings about Comoros, America, etc? ).
    4 no source disclosure about who declared RDS was legitimate, but "i say/you say" rubbish.

    What more would you need?

    You can probaly admit that nobody knewabout the VAE in the USA] before Sorbon promoted it

    Sure.
    Nobody knew about Liberia as a degree granting heaven; nobody knew about the "UK education act 1982" before degree mills tried to scam unsuspecting americans with this old & dirty trick.
    Every idiot can register a panama company or an "association" called whatever name they like.

    Ham said previously also that "he had no trace of Sorbon in any French publication "but it was nevertheless published at the Journal officiel and registered officially (mistake or....?

    never said any of the above. Fraud again. it was the conmen who published a gif of some city hall association record, not me. French authorities told me RDS is a law 1901 outfit, yet in the same line forewarned me it was no university & i had to better look elsewhere to get a govt recognized VAE procedure. It was the conmen who argued (again to confuse americans ) that RDS record of incorporation equated govt charter to bestow degrees: fraud again.

    KCFILE. GMAIL, PHD, HOW MANY ALIASES DO YOU NEED?

    The rest is a question of appreciation and judgment not "Fraud".
    hmm
    beauty is in the eyes of the beholder...already heard this one.
    Once again dealing with a miserable individual under 56 aliases.
     
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