Université Francophone Robert de Sorbon

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by [email protected], Apr 14, 2004.

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  1. Andrew Maz

    Andrew Maz New Member


    Will you be facing the jury in person as foreseen by the French VAE law? If not, are you asking yourself why?
     
  2. ray1212

    ray1212 member

    Response to MichaelR

    Dear Sir,

    I have no plans to go to France, but I am available to the Honorable Jury by email or telephone if they have any questions or if they need further clarification. Many institutions of higher learning in the United States test their students outside the physical setting of the campus, and still maintain control over the academic process, whether it be testing or any other means of evaluating that which was learned. Isn't that what online education is all about.

    Also I assure you I don't want a degree from a diploma mill, but I am not going to let someone's opinion of the law dictate and keep me from participating in what I have determined to be a viable process. Everything I have read tells me it is legit and that is all that matters. Also, your criticism of Dr. Prade is noted, but I am sure if the powers to be in educational circles or US Immigration doubted his reputation in evaluating education credentials from the Robert de Sorbon University, he would be closed down. I will probably have the degree evaluated also by another person anyway. I am not the least bit concerned.

    Please try and not force your opinions on other people and give them a chance to think for themselves. Being educated also includes the ability to think for one's self.

    Enjoy life and try and not be so critical! Have a Great Day and God Bless!

    Sincerely,

    Reverend Robert Ray Hill
    Ordained Minister
    http://www.CivilAirPatrol.biz/Resume.pdf
     
  3. MichaelR

    MichaelR Member

    Re: Response to MichaelR



    According to other posts (in this thread)you are required by the French government to be present for the jury. Also based on the other messages in this thread the VAE can not be done by distance.

    I am not critisizing Dr. Prade I am questioning him. He according to other sources has been linked to the university directly. These links have been erased. If Peter French still reads this board I believe that he can provide the evidence I am talking about.
    Since there is no government control of evalaution services I doubt that immigration would tell Dr. Prade to quit operating.

    I am not trying to force my opion on anyone. I am seeing what I feel are the facts and the aren't adding up in favor of UFRS.

    I do enjoy life, and if I am critical of a school that I question then so be.. oh and Blessed Be
     
  4. Andrew Maz

    Andrew Maz New Member

    Re: Response to MichaelR

    It's not anybody's opinion. It's the law.
    The only thing telling you that it's legit is a process called "cognitive dissonance", or a shill.

    "...I have over 25 years progressive professional experience in government and private sector employment..."

    Interesting background for an ordained minister, Father.
     
  5. ray1212

    ray1212 member

    (content deleted due to TOS violation)
     
  6. ray1212

    ray1212 member

    Dear Andrew Maz,

    I appreciate your critique of my experience. And I respectfully like to be addressed as "Reverend", not "Father", because I am not a member of the Catholic church, although I highly respect their faith.

    The experience I have gained over the years has been in government, but I have been ordained as a minister for nearly ten years and have served as a missionary in the East Tennessee Applachian Mountains. My love is in ministry, but I don't draw a salary from it. I have to support my self someway. I just choose to work in government.

    I pray that your comments weren't meant as a personal attack in an effort to discredit me in my svaluation of Sorbon. Either way, the Lord knows my intentions and is my sole Judge. A bit of intospection is always a good thing to keep one in check.

    Sincerely,

    Reverend Robert Ray Hill
    Ordained Minister
    http://www.CivilAirPatrol.biz/Resume.pdf
     
  7. ray1212

    ray1212 member

    Dear MichaelR,

    I have had the chance to also review AED, and I agree with you. I looked at practically all of the supposed experiential degrees out there and I wrote many people regarding them. I think there is a tendency for many institutions to try and jump on the "VAE" band wagon, just because the French Law is legitimizing the process. That doesn't make it right. I am trying to be careful here and not personally attack another institution for what they are doing.

    I will tell you about one program I received an evaluation with, but I won't out of a sincere respect for humanity mention who they are. One institution after forwarding a resume to them, said I qualified for a PhD in Public Administration. They did not want any backup to verify what I was telling them was true. Now that bothers me. So for $150.00 for a nicely made resume, and another $1,100.00, I could get a PhD from a similiar program that isn't legit.

    The fact is, I presented all my documentation (nearly 100 pages) to Sorbon, and after two weeks I may have received Candidacy for the Masters. But that does not mean the Jury will finally award the degree without further critique of my experience.

    Sincerely,

    Reverend Robert Ray Hill
    Ordained Minister
    http://www.CivilAirPatrol.biz/Resume.pdf
     
  8. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Ray, no one has critized the VAE process. Why do you claim otherwise?

    Did you read the information that indicates that the French government said that Universite Francophone Robert de Sorbon is not a french university? Since it is not a french university the whole issue of VAE is irrelevant. IMHO, you should be very suspicious of the university that is claiming to be something that it is not.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 11, 2004
  9. Abbacabba

    Abbacabba New Member

    I am all for any process similar to the VAE making its way into the US educational system.

    While it is true none of the French governmental sources outright deny UFRDS's legal status they can not confirm it either.

    In most cases I was warned that even if they *could* hold up legally it would be more akin to the US 'religious' degree; something that while legal is not necessarily academically accepted as valid.


    <off topic>

    I really hate that degrees have become such a vital part of the hiring process for jobs. This makes it appear that a degree is a document stating you are prepared for a line of work.

    BUT, you can not go the other way, i.e. obtain a degree after proving you can do that work.

    I would hope that either industry certifications and qualifications overtake the degrees importance or that "degree creep" makes HR departments turn to other measures of qualification.

    Should something like VAE be introduced, straight work exp. = credit or degree. It may cause something like that to happen.

    I like VAE and any process like it(TESC, COSC). But if in the end the paper is useless then its just as good as printing off one of your own.



    </off topic>
     
  10. ham

    ham member

    http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16050

    http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16133


    i'd like Ray1212 to address what has been said in the ABOVE posts.
    There is plenty of SPECIFIC information gotten from highly competent & specific & disclosed sources, which is not the case when it comes to claims by RDS. .

    Michal ( aka Gmail; one time male & negro; another time white & female; one time from Senegal; another from the Usa, the comoros or planet Jupiter ) made simple yet precise claims.
    On another board he mentioned a release of the french state gazette, where RDS would be mentioned as a legitimate degree bestower. Yet NOWHERE in the gazette is RDS mentioned.
    lie n.1.

    Here he seemed a bit confused about the nationality of the RDS outfit: comorian; french; nort-american...french with comorian accreditation...american with swiss credentials...
    I asked that specific question but got no reply: nothing at all.

    I said elsewhere:
    if i submitted a Ph.D style dissertation to three Ph.D holders, recognized for teaching in the field, and by doing so i'd get an underwritten statement i am skilled enough to be a PH.D, would i become one?

    of course not; not in the customary & legal meaning of the word.
    Then perhaps i had worked really hard; and perhaps i had submitted my work to people whose insight & authority far exceeded that of a "traditional" university...
    Alright.
    Yet i'm no Ph.D the customary, legal way...sorry.

    While it is true none of the French governmental sources outright deny UFRDS's legal status they can not confirm it either.

    L'université francophone robert de Sorbon est un établissement privé.Les diplômes de cet établissement ne sont pas des diplômes nationaux.Nous recommandons aux personnes intéressées par le démarche VAE et les diplômes français de s'adresser directement aux établissements publics français ou écoles privés décernant un diplôme reconnu par état.

    it sounds to me explicit & pertinent more than enough to devote my energies to other ventures than the dubious, spoiled by lies RDS route.
     
  11. ray1212

    ray1212 member

    Ham, Ham, Ham!!!

    It is really a shame that you have to lower yourself by insulting Alain Michal to try and prove a point! I realize I may never sway your opinion or anyone elses on this site regarding Robert de Sorbon University. but I hope the one thing I get across to the readers is to do their research and decide for themselves.

    Someone interested in obtaining a degree from Sorbon really have nothing to lose. After they apply, if their application, their $60.00 for the evaluation will be gladly refunded. And if their Candidacy is approved, as mine was, is $600.00 too much of a price to pay to earn a credential that is recognized for future graduate studies or towards employment. I plan on using mine for both.

    And another thing, if Dr. Prade's evaluation is recognized by the the US Government since 1995, that is good enough for me. And who are you to judge? Or are you slighly jealous with Alain Michal, Sorbon or Dr. Prade.

    Take care and I pray in the future you exercise "Wisdom" when criticizing a fellow human being.

    Reverend Robert Ray Hill
    Ordained Minister
    http://www.CivilAirPatrol.biz/Resume.pdf

    PS: I would like to further say, I am not be paid to endorse the Robert de Sorbon University. I just hate to see people taken advantage of and ganged up on this website!
     
  12. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Ray,

    Why do you continue to ignore that Universite Francophone Robert de Sorbon is not a french university? Does this not mean that VAE is irrelevant to them? How do you reconcile that they claim to be a french university and the french authorities say that they are not?

    Thanks,
    Bill
     
  13. ray1212

    ray1212 member

    It is fruitless to keep arguing the point. Much like the analogy, "Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder." If the degree works for the recipent, that is all that matters. I look forward to receiving my Masters Degree from the Robert de Sorbon University. I am confident it will work for me and also the many other people who post on this website that apply.

    I would be interested in hearing what John Bear says about Sorbon. I purchased his latest book, and just received it today. Many of the schools posted on DegreeInfo.Com you consider a diploma mill are not listed as such in his book. In fact, some of the universities on this site are listed in the same category as California Coast University. They might not be as recognized as regionally accredited universities, but provide another means of validating nontraditional learning. I believe Sorbon is a Great Alternative!

    Eventually maybe people will be educated enough to see the difference between an alternative, but valid choice and a diploma mill. I find something very interesting. Do a Google search for many of the universities you criticize on this website. Why do you find that many of the accredited nontraditional degree programs like University of Phoenix, AIU, etc... advertise under the link for the diploma mills? Are they hurting for students so badly that the need to associate themselves with a diploma mill.

    Reverend Robert Ray Hill
    Ordained Minister
    http://www.CivilAirPatrol.biz/Resume.pdf
     
  14. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    Ah, how uneducated and ignant we all is. But we know how google advertising works. We know what Bear says and does not say and why. And we know how to use, commas.

    Since this is what we know despite not being as holy as Ray, I must for once sign myself,

    Fr. Janko Preotul
    Genuwine 3-D Lutheran Pastor Who Does Not Need to Make Reference to His Ordained Status in His Sig Line in Order to Excuse Arrant Foolishness Under Cover of the Clerical State, And Who Knows That La Francophonie Is Also Not a State, And That the Happy Similarity of -Phonie to Sorbon Is Only An Accident of Phonics.
     
  15. ray1212

    ray1212 member

    Response to Uncle Janko!

    I am amazed just how arrogant someone can be and ignorant of the Word. I started a friendly debate, and most of you have to taken it personal just to prove a point. All I am saying basically is mind your own business and try and keep from being so critical of everyone for their opinions. The Bible speaks specifically to these in several words.

    MATTHEW 7:1-5:

    "Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull the mote out of thine eye; and behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast the mote out of thy brother's eye."

    And I would not want to personally attack a man of God, especially in public by posting your inflamatory comments.

    1 Chronicles 16:22:
    "Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm."

    Galatians 6:7
    "A man reaps what he sows."

    Either way, I sincerely hope and pray that people who frequent this website see through the comments expoused here and are able to come to their own intelligent decision, no matter what they deem it to be. Robert de Sorbon, Dr. Prade, and Alain Michal and myself deserve the same respect that you do! Why do you and others here have to conduct yourselves in an unprofessional manner and insist on degrading other people?

    May God Bless All of You and Give You Wisdom!

    James 1:5
    "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God..."

    Sincerely,

    Reverend Robert Ray Hill
    Ordained Minister
    http://www.CivilAirPatrol.biz/Resume.pdf
     
  16. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Ray, you're certainly free to be an academic fraud if you so choose. I hope that you're unsuccessful in passing it off as a real degree but wish you the best otherwise.
     
  17. ray1212

    ray1212 member

    Posts by Bill Huffman, Uncle Janko, Ham, and MichaelR

    Greetings Once Again,

    I am quite honored to have the opportunity to receive a Masters Degree through Robert de Sorbon University. I don't have any intention to represent the credential in any other way than as an experiential degree granted through VAE.

    What I heard about this website is true. Many of the members here hate to be challenged or questioned in anyway. Maybe it is because they feel their ego is threatened, What I sense is a little academic jealousy here. Why didn't I think of that first? I don't know.

    What I do know is maturity is achieved when one is capable of thinking for one's self, weighing all the facts, coming to some conclusion and making a decision on their own. I think what we have is a difference of opinion.

    If society is going to change and move forward, it needs to progress beyond the status quo. The French Educational System is doing just that with the VAE. And whether you believe Robert de Sorbon University has received government approval or not, it isn't up to you.

    Evaluation of Experiential learning has been done by accredited US Institutions of Higher Learning for over 30 years. From that perspective, what has changed? What we have here is some narrow minded bigots that want to force their views on society at large. Everyone wants to be an expert!

    Sincerely,

    Reverend Robert Ray Hill
    Ordained Minister
    http://www.CivilAirPatrol.biz/Resume.pdf
     
  18. MichaelR

    MichaelR Member

    your missing the point Ray. I am not arguing the validity of the VAE or experiential learning I am not convinced that RDS is a legitimate french school. I would check with AACRAO if I was you. You can find their website at www.AACRAo_Org
     
  19. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Reverend, I refer you to the 9th Commandment.

    Sincerely,

    Rich Douglas, Ph.D.
     
  20. ham

    ham member

    It is really a shame that you have to lower yourself by insulting Alain Michal to try and prove a point!

    i insulted nobody.
    there was/is an individual posing under different profiles, while fostering good news about RDS.
    For example, gmail here mentioned ( just a few lines on a screen; no source disclosure ) that someone were told RDS was ok by some university in Florida.
    Minutes apart, Michal on another board types about the same lines.
    We're on the WWW, hence i couldn't care less about the background of anyone; yet conflicting profiles maintained with the purpose of shilling do NOT add credibility to an already shady situation.
    I asked direct questions to Michal, to which no answer was given.


    I would be interested in hearing what John Bear says about Sorbon. I purchased his latest book, and just received it today. Many of the schools posted on DegreeInfo.Com you consider a diploma mill are not listed as such in his book. In fact, some of the universities on this site are listed in the same category as California Coast University. They might not be as recognized as regionally accredited universities, but provide another means of validating nontraditional learning. I believe Sorbon is a Great Alternative!

    do you want to laugh?
    MARLBOROUGH university ( a former known degree mill ) used to SELL Bear's guide!
    That because MU was described there in very lenient terms; and they'd use it as a "validation procedure".
    Interesting enough, once the guide got updated, and MU got the lines they'd deserve, they continued to carry the old, discontinued version of the guide!


    "Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder." If the degree works for the recipent, that is all that matters.

    i can print you a diploma for 19,95$; for an additional 19,95$ i can provide "verification services".
    Try me.
    I print on triple grain first class diploma paper.
    Truth is they are not going to be in business as long as you'd need them to.
    With few exceptions, degree mills are very transient experiences.
    In the end ( like the buxton university case ) you may remain alone with a piece of paper nobody knows about.

    whether you believe Robert de Sorbon University has received government approval or not, it isn't up to you.

    ???????
    the french ministry of education has been asked directly: i did so.
    the explicit answer you can read above.
    No guesswork.


    Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged:

    Nietzsche: " don't judge not to be judged. the "not to" is disgusting ".
     
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