Swiss Management Center

The website that Triggersoft posted raises some questions about Germany's approach to academic recognition.

For example, it rates Singapore Polytechnic - one of Singapore's oldest and most established higher education institutions - as a H-. And this is despite the fact that an advanced diploma from Singapore Polytechnic is usually regarded as equivalent to the academic level of a bachelor's degree in the UK and acceptable as an entry qualification to UK masters degree programs.

 

Has anyone finished an SMC Doctorate/PhD/DBA?

I have made a couple inquiries and the SMC Doctorate of Political Economy looks very interesting.

I have not heard back from my home state's Dept of Education. We have two overlapping rules that would seem to apply. One requires a foreign degree be rated equivalent by a third party evaluator. The second makes either US Dept of Education or CHEA approval the standard. Since SMC has ACSBP (I think I got that right) and CHEA recognizes ACSBP but I will not take that for granted until I get it in writing from Atlanta.

All that said has anyone on the boards have or know of a holder of a doctoral level award from SMC and have they had any luck getting an equivalency declared?

Thanks,

Bill Clark
BA in History the old fashioned way, Georgia Southern University
MA the new-fangled way, American Public University

 

Hi Jeffrey. I am considering the DBA from SMC. Have you finished yours? Have had any problems using your title so far? Can you expand that "under Swiss law the SMC is authorized to grant university level degrees"?

 

The post you're responding to is seven years old and I'm afraid that Jeffrey will never see your question. Maybe someone else . . . ?

 

We've addressed this in other threads.

SMC has the Swiss equivalent of a U.S. state approving an institution to award degrees (SMC is authorized by it's respective canton).

Switzerland, like the U.S., has another layer of approval for universities. In the U.S., this comes in the form of private accrediting bodies recognized by the U.S. Department of Education.

In Switzerland, this comes in the form of institutional accreditation through the Swiss Center for Accreditation and Quality Assurance in Higher Education (QAS) which does not recognize SMC as a university (notice how they don't use the word "university" or "college" in their name).

So, the degree is "legal" in the same sense that a degree from Trinity College and Seminary (Indiana) is "legal" because the State of Indiana authorizes them to award degrees. The school is still unaccredited, however, and its degrees have limited utility relative to a degree from an accredited school.

That also means, however, that SMC may very well run into certain issues when being used overseas. Because the school lacks the government (at the national level) imprimatur I cannot imagine a credential evaluation service would view an SMC degree very favorably.

Now, none of this means that SMC is a big scam and that it's degrees are completely and utterly worthless. However, I would say it has diminished utility. Also, at this time, many nations are getting pretty sensitive about "diploma mill degrees." Singapore just clamped down on foreigners claiming unaccredited degrees and falsifying credentials (the latter resulting in a much more serious penalty).

With the happenings in Pakistan I suspect this is going to get worse before it gets better.

By all means, decide what is best for you and your educational goals. But also accept the limitations of degrees from schools like this. Also remember that if employers perceive your degree to be bogus they won't generally let you stand there and give them a lecture about how the degree is technically legal. You just won't get the job. That may not be fair (especially in the case of employers who write off accredited schools like UofP completely despite its accreditation) but it is what it is.

 

I'll try to pinch-hit for Jeffrey, who appears to be (understandably) absent. As Kizmet says, it's been seven years!

Yes - I was looking at this school again, just a few days ago. SMC University (its official name, nowadays) has Cantonal permission to grant degrees. That makes them "legal." But they are not mainstream, Swiss Federation-recognized degrees. Distance schools are invariably set up in this way in Switzerland. Federal requirements for universities are onerous - buildings, at least 100 full-time professors, etc. Quality of Canton-authorized schools varies from none to excellent. I know of one that has the "triple crown" of business program accreditation - AACSB, EQUIS and AMBA. But that one is not SMC.

BACK to SMC. Yes, ACBSP is recognized by CHEA, but as programmatic accreditation - not institutional. Your program is accredited, but not your school. ACBSP insists on RA schools in the US - no Nationals need apply for program accreditation, but abroad, the organization seems (to this writer) to march to its own drummer, in this respect. A non-US school must have "sufficient degree-granting authority in its own country." ACBSP is the sole arbiter of what is "sufficient authority." Not only has it accredited programs of Swiss Canton-authorized schools, it has accredited those of several legal-but-not-mainstream schools in other countries, e.g. Horizons University in France. I'm not against this - all schools abroad for which ACBSP has accredited programs are legal, and I'm dead sure ACBSP would not accredit a substandard program.

That said, I'm not sure what kind of evaluation you'd get here, from a NACES evaluator. You might do very well in industry, depending on the employer's view. That triple-accredited school I mentioned before reports first-year salaries averaging $140K for its MBA grads...and that's still with no institutional accreditation! From what I've heard and read, I think SMC does a good job. As I mentioned above, its programs are undoubtedly of quality, or ACBSP would not accredit them. Your mileage may vary, depending on location and circumstances. I believe the degrees are still H- as per ANABIN. That means that they're considered "deficient" in Germany -- and I believe in Austria, too. Where you live, it may be different. Check locally. Me? I don't think it's a bad school at all. But I'm not the one who's going to hire you, so that means bupkis.

J.

 

Oh yes - in case you're wondering which Swiss Canton-authorized business school has AACSB, EQUIS and AMBA program accreditations and reports high salaries for its grads - it's IMD Business School.
Check it out here: IMD business school, Switzerland I believe a distance MBA is about $90K. That's the cost I think I remember from about 3-4 years back. Today? Who knows? I didn't summon up the courage to look! :smile:

J.

 

Thank you for this valuable information. I am also considering SMC for MBA.

I checked UNESCO-IAU WHE database Luckily SMC is there which means it will also be in International universities handbook. but I dont know what criteria they follow to add any institute in the list.

I also checked ACBSP, SMC is there.

Than I used WES free tool to check degree. I could not find it there. but the accuracy of this toll is questionable as Pakistan was not in the list of countries to check.

I check wikipedia for SMC it says;

The Swiss University Conference does not list SMC among the "Recognised or Accredited Swiss Higher Education Institutions", meaning SMC is not accredited as one of Switzerland's state universities by the OAQ



Then I checked better alternative " Universitat Autònoma de Barcelona '' they offer online Master in less cost than SMC.

I found it in UNESCO WHED and ALSO verified it in WES tool. but I dont know status of recognition of this university in spain.

may be anyone of you can help me to decide.

 

Addition to my post above:

I checked UNESCO IAU WHED I found the criteria on which they ad institutes in the list. I am copying information here from the website:

Institutions are included based upon information provided by higher education authorities or found on their official website. Questionnaires are then sent to those degree-granting institutions offering at least a post-graduate degree and/or a professional diploma in four years or more to obtain more detailed information.

It comprises information on:

the institution (postal address, email, website, history;

names of officers (Academic Head, Chief Administrative Officer, Director of International Relations);

divisions (faculties, colleges, departments, schools, institutes) with fields of study;

degrees offered (with fields of study);

student services and facilities, periodicals;

student and academic staff numbers.



The designations employed for countries and territories are those in use in the United Nations system and do not imply any expression of opinion with regard to their status or the delimitations of their frontiers.

The collection of data involves working on documents in many languages, covering a wide range of continuously evolving systems of higher education. Every effort has been made to ensure that the entries are as comprehensive as possible and that the information is accurate.

The IAU thanks all bodies, the ENIC-NARIC Network, and higher education institutions which have provided material.

The date of the latest update is indicated at the bottom of each entry.

 

It's a bit hypocritical to me that a business degree earned from an accredited business program is viewed as illegitimate because the program is offered through an unaccredited university. To me, if an unaccredited school has an accredited business program, than its business degrees should be recognized as legitimate. That point, to me, should resonate with the DL crowd in particular. We gladly accept college credit for CLEP, DSST and portfolio assessment, even though the learning did not occur at an accredited institution. However, we look at an accredited business program as being illegitimate because it's not part of an accredited institution.

 

It's a weird situation. If I earned, say, an associates from an ACBSP accredited school that lacked institutional accreditation like this there is a possibility that another ACBSP accredited school would award me transfer credits. Even a non-ACBSP (though likely not transfer into an AACSB accredited program).

But there are a few other things that make me wary. First, how would an evaluation turn out? In many countries government approval is the highest level of authorization. Not so here. Anyone evaluating a credential from SMC would have to note that there is a higher level of government sanctioned approval and SMC doesn't have it. ACBSP is great. But I've never seen any job requirement which included "a degree from an institution accredited by an accreditors recognized by USDOE, it's foreign equivalent or an unaccredited foreign degree with programmatic accreditation."

I can't see SMC's position being equivalent to a "foreign accredited" school. It is most comparable to a state approved (but unaccredited) school in the US. Perhaps the confusing state of affairs would be enough to make a typical US employer just scratch their heads and assume it's legit.

But remember that most employers don't view ACBSP as a stamp of approval. Many of my HR colleagues don't know the different accreditors. To them AACSB is just a meaningless set of letters. They are generally relying more on school reputation, name recognition or indicators that the school is a diploma mill. And HR people tend to be suspicious of foreign degrees even when they come from countries with top notch educational systems.

Some years ago we had an applicant (later hired) for a software engineering job who had graduated from Alborg (Denmark). One of my colleagues in HR was immediately suspicious. "Why" she wondered aloud "would this american kid run off to Denmark for school? Maybe he couldn't get into a US university!"

Absolutely idiotic assertion. But there are a lot of US-centric people working in U.S. businesses. They, generally, understand that schools like Oxford are "pretty good" but as you start to delve into the lower tier of European schools you may hit more resistance. And while DL is coming along great this conversation will invariably come up:

"Wow, sounds great. What's switzerland like?"

Which will probably pressure the typical applicant to lie. Say that you've never been to Switzerland and it makes your degree seem questionable to the uninformed person.

None of this means SMC is a crooked, no good, school. But these are some of the concerns that enter my mind. We have some really obnoxious attitudes here in the US. That doesn't mean you shouldn't pursue a specific course of education. But it is something you should be aware of in making a decision.

 

Excellent argument/s worth considering... :smokin:

 

A foreign qualification cannot be properly evaluated by authorities without taking into account the official status of the institution awarding the qualification AND/OR the programme taken. As such the credential evaluator should be establish that:

the institution is authorised to award qualifications, which are accepted for academic and professional purposes in the home country, AND/OR programme is accredited.

The fact that an institution and/or the programme is recognised or accredited indicates that the qualification in question represents an appropriate minimum level of education in that particular country.

Differing terms may be used to describe the status of the institution or programme in each country. The two most common are “recognition” and “accreditation”. They are often used interchangeably, but they are not synonyms.

Recognition refers to the official status granted by national legislation. Institutions that fulfill the requirements set in national legislation and have official degree-granting authority are considered to be recognised, though a different term may be used.

Accreditation is a formal decision by a recognised authority which has verified whether the institution and/or the programme meets the predefined minimum quality standards.

Accreditation is usually a voluntary process and is granted for a specified number of years, after which the institution or programme has to request re-accreditation. The differences in the way accreditation is applied in different countries may include the government involvement and the extent to which the procedure is really voluntary. In most countries acceptance of the qualifications depends on whether the institution or/and the programme is accredited, so though it may be a voluntary process, there is in fact little choice.

In some countries institutions are first granted a permit or license to operate as an educational entity (possibly for a limited amount of time while the decision is being reviewed). Licensing is not equivalent to accreditation and does not necessarily require demonstration of quality. To be granted accreditation, a licensed institution has to go through the accreditation procedure. It is the accreditation that grants the institution the right to award officially recognised qualifications as well as access to public funding.
Quality assurance is another term used in the discussions of the recognition and accreditation of institutions and programmes. Quality Assurance in higher education includes the policies, procedures and practices that are designed to achieve, maintain or enhance the quality of the institution and/or the programme.

Generally qualifications awarded by recognised institutions are considered to be recognised. However, in some countries recognition/accreditation of a programme is separate from the recognition/accreditation of an institution. In other words, it is possible for recognised institutions to offer programmes that are not officially recognised and for non-recognised institutions to offer recognised programmes.

Credential evaluators should verify the status of the institution and/or programme through which the qualification was awarded and check whether the institution and/or programme belong to the education system of a given country.

Reference: Enic-Naric

 

Well, I'm not suggesting that a person is going to create an entire Swiss experience from the Wikipedia page for the city of Zurich, per se. But I feel like some applicants with online degrees try to buttress the legitimacy of their degree by exaggerating time spent in or around the physical location of the institution. Maybe it's a dying trend. I think a person who earned a degree online in the early 2000s likely has more hangups with their program's delivery method than a person who graduates this year.

For example, I had an applicant with a degree from American InterContinental University (actually, I've had several and this is the most common cause for the question "Hey, is this a real university?" by the hiring manager).

The hiring manager asked "So where is AIU?"

This is the point where, when I'm asked about CTU, I would probably say "Colorado Springs, but I earned my degree online." This woman was clearly nervous. And she stammered out a pretty lame excuse about how she completed "most" of her program "through a combination" of online study and study in Atlanta. Thing was, she had her dates of study listed and during the time she was supposedly studying in Atlanta she was also working full-time in Albany.

So I don't disagree with you. I think "stammer something lame" is probably a more accurate way of conveying what I had intended to say.

My point is merely that whenever your school includes a specific geographic location in the name people tend to ask about it if they are either familiar with the place or it sounds like an exotic locale. And because some dinosaur HR person periodically gets quoted on the internet saying things like "we never hire people with online degrees!" I think some people get especially nervous when the online aspect of their program becomes a focus of conversation.

For me, employers have always seemed impressed (or at least pleased) by the fact that I earned my degree while serving full-time in the military. So I have seen no reason to hide it. Others are a bit more insecure.

 

I guess discussion is diverting to HR more than SMC.

So respected members what do you suggest should I my MBA degree there provided the facts posted in this discussion. I have also sent emails to get clarification.

I received reply from UNESCO - IAU

According to information made available by the authorities in the US this institution is accredited by the Accreditation Council for Business Schools and Programs (ACBSP). Please go to User Agreement. You can search by accredit programme and you will see the institution listed. For more information please contact the US National Information Centre on Enic-Naric.

I checked given link and found following statement: in some countries

recognition/accreditation of a programme is separate from the recognition/accreditation of an institution. In other words, it is possible for recognised institutions to offer programmes that are not officially recognised and for non-recognised institutions to offer recognised programmes.
link: Enic-Naric

I received reply from SMC:

The Graduate and Doctorate programs of SMC University are accredited by the Association of Collegiate Business Schools and Programs (ACBSP) (Accreditation Council for Business Schools and Programs). ACBSP is one of the official national accreditation bodies in the United States, recognized by the Council of Higher Education Accreditation, CHEA (Council for Higher Education Accreditation Home Page).
SMC is not accredited by any Swiss Accreditation bodies.

waiting for your conclusion guys.

 

I'm also curious as to how a foreign credential evaluation would turn out. It probably wouldn't turn out well since, as you mentioned, SMC lacks the higher, typical level of institutional accreditation in its home country. That might be blurred by the fact SMC is listed in the UNESCO IAU WHEN Handbook/Database, but that's a different issue.

Even on this board, many of us slam on SMC and view them as illegitimate. If we respect the ACBSP, and the ACBSP accredits the SMC business programs, then we should view graduates of SMC business programs as having received a legitimate education and a legitimate credential, albeit with limited utility because of the aforementioned lack of institutional accreditation.

I am not looking for a secular doctorate at this time, but if I was in the market for one I would consider SMC. The education received at SMC is legitimate, rigorous, and of high quality. This has been validated by a respected accrediting agency (ABCSP) that only reviews business programs. The degree's utility for use as a teaching credential, or as a door opener for the finite number of professional positions that require a doctorate, would mean nothing to me. But for the people who understand accreditation, like many on this board, to view SMC business degrees as being inferior in terms of academic quality...well, that seems bizarrel to me. Which degree has more utility, a MBA from SMC or a MBA from say, UMUC? UMUC of course, because it holds institutional accreditation at the regional level here in the U.S. Now, which MBA should, based on its respective programmatic accreditation, offer the "better" business education? You'd have to say SMC because, as most wouldd agree, ACBSP is of higher stock than UMUC's programmatic accreditation (IACBE).

 

First of all, I think IACBE and ACBSP are on the same level. AACSB is in the top position while the other two fall into a secondary category I like to call "the other business program accreditors."

Second, regardless of the programmatic accreditation, SMC lacks institutional accreditation where every US based ACBSP program does not. So every single US-based ACBSP school has that on SMC.

It's not a matter of academic quality I'm arguing it's a matter of institutional quality and degree utility.

Can you use an SMC degree to get an academic job in the U.S.? Maybe. As has been proven you can get a job, get into law school and sometimes even score a teaching post at an accredited university (usually a religious university or seminary) with an unaccredited degree.

So it would be ludicrous to assert that you could never get a teaching job or that no employer would ever respect your qualification.

But my company requires your degree to be accredited by a USDOE/CHEA recognized accreditor or its foreign equivalent. SMC does not fit that category. Programmatic accreditation is great but it isn't institutional accreditation. And programmatic accreditation isn't a substitute for institutional accreditation (the notable exception in the U.S. would be a free-standing ABA law school).

So SMC may be a high quality unaccredited school. Their programs may be equivalent, in terms of rigor and other standards, to the programs found at accredited institutions of learning. But SMC is an unaccredited school nonetheless. You may decide that's fine. So may many others. I, personally, would steer clear of an unaccredited program even if it was a fairly well respected one.

 

My DSocSci officially required only one on-campus visit: the viva voce. Still, I visited 4 times for optional residencies, plus the viva. Good stuff to be had each time, and I wasn't always the farthest traveler.

 

And I do. And my opinion will do those grads exactly zero good. Counts for nothing. It's a sad fact that "limited utility" drops to zero if an employer requires institutional accreditation or the equivalent...and many (dare I say most?) do. And it is also unlikely that mainstream schools will accept a degree from here as a basis for further study. I know Canadian Universities won't. Generally, if it's a US degree, it has to be RA. Other countries - Charter or the top-level mainstream equivalent, e.g. Swiss Federation if the degree is from Switzerland.

It's doubly unfortunate because SMC appears to offer good programs. They must - the programs are ACBSP accredited! If you have your own business and want to show people you've earned an ACBSP-approved business degree from Switzerland - SMC could be a great choice. If you want to work for someone else, or get an advanced degree from a mainstream school, umm...

Another long-time poster viewed Swiss Federation requirements (100 full-time professors spending 30% of their time on research, etc.) as a brick-built barrier to entry, rather than an assurance of quality.

It seems running approved programs at a decent school for a reasonable fee sometimes isn't enough. :sad:

J.