Swiss Management Center

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by LadyExecutive, Oct 24, 2005.

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  1. John Rogers

    John Rogers Member

    Disappointing that he seems to carry so much anger about all of this. He obviously worked very hard for his education, and some of it was well outside mainstream channels. If anyone would understand the value of self directed research under the guidance of respected leaders in their field I would think it would be him. More fun to be provocative, I guess.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Levicoff
     
  2. JBjunior

    JBjunior Active Member

    What are these "actual business practices" you are talking about that those particular schools are responsible for? Your statement seems to counter all of the facts through multiple investigations, charges, and plea bargains that indicate the schools were victims of a scheme against them. If you are talking about the general practice of donations that result in admission through "normal" channels, I am not sure why you would single out those schools.

    Congratulations on your accomplishment, I hope it serves you well.
     
  3. Phdtobe

    Phdtobe Well-Known Member

    ....later being affiliated with a predominantly African-American church. I like that. I grew in a church that combined africanism with Catholicism.
     
  4. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    The criticism never ends, the graduate from a good school might be subject to criticism if the person has no publications. If he or she has publications maybe are from a low ranked journal, if they have publications from good journals maybe they don't have grants and so on, we can keep continue the critique forever.

    The original OP for this thread was also beaten to death because she decided to do an EdD in leadership from a RA school but not so prestigious according to the bashing crowd here. The same people that bash also have credentials from little reputable institutions but they feel entitled to bash others for X or Y reason such as designation (EdD is not as reputable as a PhD, Argosy is not a reputable RA University, Leadership is a BS subject, and so on).

    Again, some these people do not live in reality, the PhD from Central Nicaragua would be fine to teach as an adjunct in an immigrant area like California as long as you get a degree equivalency report in particular if the PhD is in Finance or other in demand business field. The OP maybe has already a 200K plus a year career and just wants the PhD title to adjunct in few schools at night for pleasure so why he or she would need to invest 100K for this purpose?

    SMC and UCN are not Harvard but they seem to offer genuine education for a low budget. This could help people from low income countries to complete a PhD and move on with their academic careers. Few examples below:
    https://www.upsa.edu.gh/index.php/2017-01-29-11-19-24/management-studies/lecturers-management-studies/750-alhassan-bunyaminu-phd
    http://npiub.edu.bd/category_administrator_detail/197
    http://www.uz.ac.zw/index.php/science-maths-edu-staff
     
    sideman and chrisjm18 like this.
  5. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    LadyExecutive can't find a full-time job, so I'm not sure she's the best example to use.
     
  6. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Well-Known Member

    :emoji_grinning::emoji_laughing:ctfu
     
  7. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    The lady comes here to ask for advice for the same reason but instead a bunch people bash her telling her that her education is substandard even though the same people told her to get a RA degree instead of a SCU degree when she started this thread. The lady listened to the advice and got an RA EdD from Argosy, later she comes here saying "Sorry guys but your advise did not work" what can I do now? Then people keep bashing her because here degree was in Leadership, EdD and not PhD, it is RA but from a for profit etc, etc.

    Bottom line is that one should make their own choices and do expect approval from others. Some people provide positive advice while others just keep bashing because themselves most likely are not doing so well with their own choices so they reflect their own failure with the bashing.

    You take positive advice and do not engage in negative non valuable comments. The fact that someone tells me that University of Central Nicaragua is not the best option when I already completed my PhD, has no value to me. Instead, if you advice the person how they can make valuable the PhD from University of Nicaragua degree by getting a foreign credential evaluation report or using it to get a recognized professional license, might have some value to that person.
     
    Phdtobe likes this.
  8. Steve Levicoff

    Steve Levicoff Well-Known Member

    Perhaps, but the person who spends $8,600 for a D.B.A. and a Ph.D. deserves to have other people make fun of him. :p
     
  9. John Rogers

    John Rogers Member

    Attention to detail, there, scholar. It was euros, not dollars, and it was in 2015. One would think a highly esteemed Ph.D. like yourself would be more precise.
    As to whether or not I "deserve to have other people make fun" of me for not mortgaging my entire life to gain a quality education, I suppose that is a matter of opinion. Of course, some opinions count more than others.
    Dr. Tamer Cavusgil, for instance, points out that open-mindedness and awareness are minimal internationalization targets for doctoral students, providing that the faculty, at least, are held to the same standard. He goes on to state that programmic accreditation for international doctoral programs is a useful lever for demonstrating how well a school is fulfilling an international mission (Cavusgil, 1998). As SMCU has held multiple legitimate accreditations since the beginning (including ACBSP), it would appear that SMCU meets this particular standard. Interestingly, one factor Dr. Cavusgil did not mention as being an indicator of academic excellence was ridiculous expense associated with the degree. I was able to obtain a quality, recognized doctoral level education for less than I make in a month because the delivery method is cost effective. Additionally, I have published a textbook on marketing through Cambridge Scholars Press and am preparing another on the economic history of American politics. When you compare that to spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on an education that might pay for itself after about ten years, I don't know that your argument over which option has a better return on investment is particularly valid.

    Cavusgil, S. T. (1998). Internationalizing Doctoral Education in Business: A Call for Action. Thunderbird International Business Review, 40(1), 77–85.
     
  10. heirophant

    heirophant Well-Known Member

    Because it appears to be an easy back-door to the appearance of accreditation. In my opinion it's a bright red flag, but we see some people, even here on Degreeinfo, defending it. So apparently it gets some people whatever it is that they want.

    Personally, I have more confidence in SMC than I do in UCN. Which isn't a tremendous amount in either instance. Given some of UCN's connections with what I perceive are dodgy things in different countries, a red-flag goes up in my mind whenever I see the UCN name. It's always doctorates, it seems. And I'm always skeptical.

    While UCN is supposedly accredited in Nicaragua, or licensed to operate there, or something (it's never clear), there's still the matter of Latin American program-by-program accreditation vs American-style institutional accreditation. Have the Nicaraguan accreditors (whoever they are) ever examined or accredited any of the off-shore doctoral programs that UCN seemingly "validates" British-style? Somehow, I doubt it.

    I'll add the somewhat tangential comment that some of the US accreditors are kind of sliding towards the Latin-American program-by-program accreditation model (which seems superior in some ways). I see where WASC now includes a list of programs for each school that they institutionally accredit. If an RA school is offering a program that isn't on the list, then the program presumably doesn't fall withing the scope of the accreditation. To get it included would require some kind of substantive change process I'm guessing.

    I'm going to disagree with that one. Even inside the United States there are literally thousands of colleges and universities. Nobody is familiar with all of them. When we turn our attention internationally, that problem multiplies. There are something like 200 nations out there, each one with its own educational system, procedures and peculiarities. There are failed states with no functioning educational system at all (Somalia comes to mind, yet they supposedly "accredit" a number of DL programs.) And there are countries with what I perceive as truly excellent systems. (Finland for example.) But how is a prospective distance learning student to know?

    Just the other day, Kizmet made a post about Elms College rolling out a relatively inexpensive DL CS degree. I thought 'Elms College?' So I looked it up and it turns out to be a small liberal arts college in Massachusetts, a bit obscure out here in California but entirely RA.
     
  11. John Rogers

    John Rogers Member

    I can help a little with the reason for the UCN affiliation. The lack of Cantonal recognition based on requirements that SMCU's structure cannot support has kept them off the CHEA list of endorsed institutions. UCN is on the CHEA list, so SMCU made an agreement with them to accept the quality of SMCU's program for US accreditation reasons. This relationship has been in place since 2014. If there was an actual problem with SMCU's program quality, UCN would have lost its CHEA endorsement and their arrangement terminated.
     
  12. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    I don't really see any overlap between people who were advising LadyExecutive in 2005 (or even the later posts she wasn't responding to in 2010) and her recent thread on not being able to find a job. Most of those people are no longer here.

    I was a teenager in 2005 and not a member of this forum, but my warnings are pretty consistent. Of course, a warning doesn't help after someone has earned a degree, but it helps someone researching the forum. It also helps someone understand why he or she can't find a job. As I explained to LadyExec, I don't really think the problem is that she graduated from Argosy; she graduated with a major that is non-specific and not in demand. So, instead of continuing to waste money on college courses on distance learning, the solution is to specialize in something.

    I'm also pretty consistent in warning people about for-profit colleges. I know options weren't as numerous years ago, but there are schools offering online doctorates these days for less than $15,000. I, personally, don't understand spending thousands on an unaccredited degree you'll likely never be able to use when you can spend a few more thousand on an accredited degree, but to each his own. If you just want to learn something, you can do that for free or close to it without earning a doctorate.
     
  13. heirophant

    heirophant Well-Known Member

    What "CHEA list of endorsed institutions" is that?

    What "CHEA list? I just went to the CHEA institution search page and they didn't seem to have anything listed for Nicaragua. I wouldn't expect anything, unless UCN is accredited by a CHEA recognized US accreditor.

    https://www.chea.org/search-institutions

    Neither SMC or UCN appear to have any US accreditation that I'm aware of. UCN may or may not have some sort of local Nicaraguan accreditation. I'm not familiar with the details of that.

    But the thing is, accreditation in Latin America is typically program-by-program accreditation, not American-style institutional accreditation. It isn't an entire university that's being accredited, but rather particular programs that a university offers. So it's commonplace and entirely legal for universities to offer programs that have been accredited, along with programs that have never been evaluated and aren't considered accredited by local standards. The latter programs may not satisfy more selective employers or qualify graduates for professional licenses in the home country. Here's Mexico's version:

    https://www.gob.mx/sep/acciones-y-programas/reconocimiento-de-validez-oficial-de-estudios-rvoe

    My worry about UCN is that the doctoral programs that it validates schools outside Nicaragua (SMC and a number of others) to teach on its behalf might not have that sort of Nicaraguan programmatic accreditation.

    I don't believe that there is any such CHEA endorsement.

    CHEA doesn't endorse individual foreign universities, it recognizes accreditors in the United States which in some cases accredit schools outside the US. (A number of small cantonal schools in Switzerland are in that group.) The CHEA institution search page merely lists the names of the schools that CHEA recognized accreditors forward to CHEA. I didn't see UCN listed, which isn't surprising if whatever accreditation some of its programs might have is Nicaraguan accreditation.
     
  14. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    I have a question. If it's already been answered, then I apologize. Do SMC students take any courses at UCN, or is UCN awarding their degrees to students who have never been to their school?
     
  15. FTFaculty

    FTFaculty Well-Known Member

  16. Steve Levicoff

    Steve Levicoff Well-Known Member

    As heirophant has accurately pointed out, CHEA does not accredit, recognize, or endorse individual schools. Ever. Anyone who would write the quoted text obviously doesn't have a clue about accreditation, and isn't too swift when it comes to higher education in general despite his unsubstantiated claims about having two RA masters degrees.

    You know, John, I have no interest whatsoever in business programs. But I do know what the ingredients are that make up a university. I also have no interest in looking at the web sites of all the schools that are mentioned here on DI, but if claims begin to get overly creative, I'll actually spend some time on the relevant web sites.

    I have now done that, and feel confident in saying that SMCU is a degree mill. Notwithstanding that, their web site indicates that they do not issue degrees period, and that their degrees are issued by "partner institutions" (but SMCU does not name them on their web site). Which raises questions about your intrinsic claim to earning a D.B.A. from SMCU and a Ph.D. from UCN. In other words, John, you're coming across as more full of shit than SMCU is.

    And as you go through life, you'll find more people like me that will call you on your bullshit. And you'll encounter them at the most inopportune moments. But, like I said, you're good for entertainment. In a pathetically funny way.

    As for UCN, I'm not in a position to call them a mill, but it certainly impresses me as a bullshit school. I also find the relationship between them and SMCU to be questionable at the least.

    So, John, you have arrived at the point at which I offer up to you the reaction that frauds like yourself have to actually earn from me. And here it comes:

    BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA!!! :D

    And the world joins me in laughing at you. Yes, at you.
     
  17. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    The information provided on the SMC website is confusing. They say that they aren't a university even though they call themselves SMC University. They say that degrees awarded through SMC are government recognized and accredited. In 2002, they became a degree-granting institution, but their degrees are conferred via their partner(s). They do list UCN as a partner college.

    https://www.smcuniversity.com/about/universidad-central-de-nicaragua/

    I'm just wondering, after 17 years of being a degree-granting institution, how come they aren't in a position to confer their own degrees?
     
  18. John Rogers

    John Rogers Member

  19. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    I'm Ghana ignore that meaningless post
     
  20. John Rogers

    John Rogers Member

    There was a politically motivated accusation in Ghana that SMC was a degree mill.
    Enjoy your laugh, then. I am perfectly comfortable with the choices I have made, and if they tickle your funny (Yeah. I should never try to post on my cell phone. :))
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019

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