State Approved Utility?

Re: Another State Approved/Registered College Graduate

I could post articles about crimes that haven't been solved and claim that it shows that crime pays. My "proof" that crime pays would be just as valid as your proof that unaccredited degrees are good.

 

I may be intellectually minimal, but I try to muddle along somehow.

 

Re: Another State Approved/Registered College Graduate

Again, RJT seems sincere, but misses a key point. It is almost universally true that degrees from schools like the ones he's attended have no academic merit, standing, nor recognition. It is also true that, generally speaking, such degrees seem to have more acceptance in the workplace. But there is not a consistent level of acceptance. In one situation, such a degree may be just fine. But in others, useless. And the circumstances could change dramatically in the same situation! When employers find out about state licensure, their perceptions of it drop significantly. I'd hate to be the one standing there when my employer finds out the truth about my unaccredited degree.

When you earn a degree from an unaccredited school, you automatically lock yourself out of many employment opportunities. The remaining ones are, in large part, based on your employer's lack of understanding about this stuff. If that changes, you could find yourself in some difficulties, including shopping around for another employer ignorant about accreditation.

I can't imagine someone with a degree from a properly accredited school going through any of the above. (The acceptability of regional accreditation actually goes up once employers find out about it.)

 

State Approved University Graduate

An interesting link I found for a graduate of a State Approved University, like PWU in CA:

Lab Fellow and retiree to present colloquium Tuesday

Laboratory Fellow and retiree Charles L. Mader will discuss "Oceanography/Life in Addition to the Lab" at 1:10 p.m. Tuesday in the Physics Building Auditorium.

Mader, who lives in Honolulu, spent 30 years working full time with numerical modeling of explosives and "modeling water waves on the side." Following an early retirement, he focused his full attention on modeling water waves. Mader notes that 10 years as a senior fellow of The Joint Institute for Marine and Atmospheric Research Tsunami Research Effort at the University of Hawaii resulted in modeling techniques for earthquake, landslide, asteroid-generated tsunami waves and their propagation across the ocean, run-up and flooding. These techniques are now used by National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration in its tsunami warning centers and in the generation of tsunami inundation and evacuation maps.

Mader, who holds a doctorate from Pacific Western University in Encino, Calif., is a Fellow of the American Institute of Chemists.

The talk is open to the public.

http://www.lanl.gov/orgs/pa/News/091297.html

 

But being a genius had nothing to do with his Pacific Western doctorate. It was his regionally accredited kindergarten.

 

Actually Mr. Dayson plumdog was aiming that low blow directly at me since we had a replica of that same quote (from me to him) in another conversation in another thread...a KW thread I think...However, since you can not convince nor win an arguement with someone who has already made up their mind not to believe you or accept what you say as your experience (regardless if they agree or not), there was no need to continue that conversation. So now he tries to get me into another thread.

Sorry I may be intellectually minimal or non capable to plumdog since I hold unacredited degrees, but I am intelligent enough not to respond to that open invitation to fight.

 

Re: State Approved University Graduate

An interesting case. He retired during the eighties. When did he get the PhD?

Decades ago, it was quite common for people at the leading edge of science to lack a PhD. Very uncommon now, with the PhD an entry level qualification for research careers.

 

I'd say that this continues to be in question since it was you who responded, you who invoked plumdogs name, you who referenced the previous thread, etc. I'd say that the above posting constitutes a response to plumdog even if it was superficially addressed to Bill.

Jack

 

Re: State Approved University Graduate

Interesting paradox. You scour thousands (millions?) of web pages via search engines to find the elusive "exceptions to the rule" which, in your mind, validate your unaccredited degrees. And yet, had you expended even a portion of that energy on the task, you could have earned two degrees from legitimate institutions which would've rendered these Odyssey-like searches unnecessary.

 

Re: Re: State Approved University Graduate

Ain't that hard to find holders of state approved doctorates in resonsible positions, including academics.

 

And silence is assent to whatever has been declared. I offered the original poster in question the opportunity to continue to discuss the issue privatley. He or she refused...but then reposts in a different thread with the same basic question I asked him/her, dealing with the perceptive inequity even with an RA degree. Mr. Dayson responded to him but I knew where the low blow was directed...at me. Didn't matter because as he /she said I would not change my mind. Since he/she declared my mind there was no need to answer directly.

I go now and slink back to the slime of the unacredited degree world. Thanks for the forum...it makes me laugh.

 

Re: Re: Re: State Approved University Graduate

There is an instructor at an RA University in Iowa who has, as his highest degree, an MBA from SCUPS.

If he can do the job, I don't mind at all that he got the job. This exception, in my opinion, does little or nothing to change the facts concerning utility. In other words, if I wanted to teach, the possibility of earning a state approved degree would never come up. On the other hand, I'll give credit to the few who are teaching with a state approved degree as their only graduate degree.

Tony

 

Ethics seems to be the issue that gets people who hold questionable degrees into trouble. In my opinion, a person who subscribes to a school that requires little or no work to obtain a degree may have an ethics problem. On the other hand, in my experience, a CA State Approved degree is legitimate and earned, and therefore ethical to use within its functional areas.

 

Your opinion, of course. And you have a horse in this race, which you've made clear. (Thanks, not everyone does that.)

Unfortunately, there is demonstrated confusion among employers about the meaning of state approval. Many equate it with recognized accreditation. When the difference between the two is made clear, the acceptability of state approval drops significantly.

My opinion: it is unethical to leave an incorrect impression with someone. If you claim a degree, it is a reasonable expectation that it comes from a recognized school. In the U.S., schools that are properly accredited are considered recognized. Unaccredited schools that are permitted to operate by the states--approved, even--do not meet this definition. Claiming a degree from an unaccredited school is a tacit falsehood. The number of people who see the degree listed and can actually describe the difference between an accreditation and state approval is miniscule. It is understood around here, but not out there.

Without proper recognition--recognized accreditation, that is--there is no real difference between CCU, Chadwick, Century, or Kennedy-Western.

In higher education, where such matters are central, not peripheral, there us much less confusion on these matters, as John's survey of admissions officials demonstrated.

 

A solution: label the degree state-approved or unaccredited on one's CV. This is what I do with my work at my denomination's unaccredited seminary; my RA degrees are listed without comment. So far, no problems with this very simple disclosure.

This is my opinion. I am not disagreeing with anyone. I am not questioning anyone's expertise. I am not from Barcelona.

 

This has been suggested before. Some have even said it is the ethical thing to do. But it seems unlikely that many would draw attention to questionable nature of one's credentials. Who would do this? And if graduates won't, who would enforce it and make them?

Unfortunately, even this solution fails to rectify the biggest problem: employers seem to equate state approval with accreditation because they don't understand the difference.

 

Dont forget the US DoE

Rich:

While is true that Regionally/Nationally Accredited Schools are recognized by the US Department of Education, the Department certainly allows for States to determine what is and is not a postsecondary institution operating within it's borders within the United States - as the following from their Website points out: (the Department of Health, Education and Welfare, Office of Education, Bureau of Higher and Continuing Education, Division of Eligibility and Agency Evaluation) "The United States has no Federal ministry of education or other centralized authority exercising single national control over educational institutions in this country. The States assume varying degrees of control over education, but, in general, institutions of post secondary education are permitted to operate with considerable independence and autonomy. As a consequence, American educational institutions can vary widely in the character and quality of their programs."

Therefore, if the US DoE recognizes a State’s right to approve an educational institution within its boarders; I cannot see how naming said institution with the proper location is dishonest. Should all Bob Jones Graduates state "Unaccredited Religious Institution" under their BJU MBA? Or, would you just single out Non-Religious, State Approved/Licensed Degrees? Perhaps then the US DoE needs to change its position to allow for only RA/NA Accredited Schools. If so, then I am fully in support of your claim.

 

Re: Dont forget the US DoE

This shows a remarkable lack of understanding. The USDoE doe NOT "allow" the states to approve schools. It has no choice. It has no authority in the matter. This has been discussed widely on this forum. You should read the archives and bone up on the subject.

Nor can the USDoE "change its position to allow for only RA/NA Accredited Schools." It does not have this authority.

BTW, whether or not you support it, I "claimed" nothing. I didn't even "suggest" something. In fact, I felt suggesting enforcement of some sort of disclosure rule was dubious. And absent an amemdment to the U.S. Constitution, the federal government will be excluded from directly regulating higher education. But it DOES maintain a list (by law) of recognized accrediting agencies. The California BPPVE is not on that list.

It would be nice, absent that constitutional amendment, if the states would get together to standardize their requirements to allow schools to operate. This could even be done with the cooperation of the accreditors. But I wouldn't hold my breath.

People claiming degrees from unrecognized schools seem to have a pretty clear pathway to continue this practice well into the future. It is a pity.

 

Re: Dont forget the US DoE

Wow! Sounds like a warning to me.

Wouldn’t it be great if the U.S. Department of Education actually approved of some kind of mechanism that would assure us that an institution met, at least, some minimum standard of quality?

 

Hasn't this subject been beaten to death yet?

And by the way, does anyone know how to get Kennedy-Western to quit sending me junk mail? They send me enough crap to make me feel like an accomplice to tree murder.