State Approved Utility?

HAHAHAHAHAH, you're right!

 

One of the Key-Issues in evaluating a school which is unaccredited, but state approved, is the earned degree factor. My take is any degree that is soley awarded on experience is not applicable. Courses must be completed, how many and content - may be the reason that SA schools do meet the criteria of RA/NA - and some sort of Thesis and Final Project must be required.

It is true that legitamate SA Degrees have less general utility, however, if the school is legally registered, and the degree is actually earned, via, coursework, then I feel the degree is deserved.

All the best,

 

I am unclear on what you mean by "deserved." That the degree was earned and not just given away? Or that the person holding the degree should be recognized for having one? (Much the same as someone with a degree from an accredited school?)

The degree represents attainment of a body of knowledge and, possibly, skills. Do degrees from unaccredited schools successfully communicate this? Apparently not, at least not consistently. RJT acknowledges this when he/she (Robert or Roberta?) says that degrees from state-approved schools have less utility.

The educative process is one thing, and the credentialing process is another (although related). When the credential is not recognized/accepted/etc., it reflects on the educative process as well, or, at least, how it is perceived.

Can someone get a good education at an unaccredited school? Sure. But the credential awarded (and the school issuing it) makes it less likely that good education will be acknowledged. How much less? Almost not at all in academia. In the employment sector, better, but still significantly lower. The trick is to know where and when this will happen. Often, you don't.

 

Rich:

Good points. The matter with State Approved Degrees verses RA/NA is unifying the coursework/criteria under one system; verses having many different styles and approches to offering said content. Many would argue this should be the basis, though, for having State Approved programs in the first place.

My intial point was that legitamate State Approved/registered programs can, do and should exist. These schools should be clear with their unaccredited status (no false accreditation), and state that there may be degree utility limitations.

However, any school that awards a degree soley on life experience is bogus and should be classified as a pure mill. For a degree to be not only legal - but legitamate - it must be earned, that is a number of courses should be completed, which may vary, and a thesis developed. Life-credits should not comprise the whole degree.

All the best,

 

You once again seem to be falling for the degree mill speak. Life-credits are worthless and meaningless unless there is a rigorous known and well defined process in place to evaluate the life-credits. A place like Kennedy-Western is a degree mill because they do not have a rigorous process to evaluate life-credits. Instead it is part of the sales department's tactics to obscure and hide their ridiculous/bogus lack of standard graduation requirements.

 

Here is another successful State Approved Bachelor's Graduate. Despite the lack of full utility, earned degree holders from legally operating but State Approved/Registered Schools have achieved; whether the degree was useful is the overriding question. I'll leave that question to the experts:

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/May1997/b050197_bt208-97.html

RJT

 

Good going, RJT, Maj. Gen. Warren L. Freeman is indeed successful, and he does claim a Bachelor's degree in Management from Pacific-Western University, a California State-Approved school. But honestly now, do you think his success is more attributable to his Bachelor’s degree (as you imply) or could the fact that he also completed numerous military schools including Army War College, National Defense University, Reserve Component, Command and General Staff College, and the Harvard University JFK School of Government, Program for Senior Executives in National and International Security have something to do with his success?

Could it be that his Master’s degree in Management from the regionally accredited National-Louis University, as well as his illustrious military service and numerous military decorations also played a small part in his success?

Forget the experts, what do you think? If we were to ask him, do you think Maj. Gen. Freeman would say he owed it all to his unaccredited undergraduate degree?

 

I'd be interested in knowing how he got his Master's degree with a non-RA Bachelor's in the US and how he became an officer in the military without an RA Bachelor's. Was the Bachelor's accepted afterall? Or Perhaps the military rules were more lax back then ?

 

Hmm...I am curious to know how exactly does KW evaluate life credits? Can you outline in detail the life-credit evaluation process that makes it a degree mill?

 

K-W Evaluation Process:
1. The applicant is breathing
2. The appllicant can speak and can spell their name
3. The applicant's check may not bounce
Approval for all but 5-7 classes!

Appeals Process: Above 3 requirements are not met? Take their money anyway!

 

This is what is stated on his official biography Web site:

• 
  “The general began his military career in 1966. He was commissioned an military police officer following Officer Candidate School in 1969.”

Major General Freeman did not receive his Bachelor’s degree until 1982. His biography also states that he received an Honorary Doctorate of Humane Letters from National-Louis University, but it is properly listed under Achievements, not Education.

 

He could have been admitted to the master's program without a bachelor's, completing the PWU bachelor's degree later. Or he could have completed the PWU degree first, but National-Louis admitted him as a non-degree holder. Or he could have been admitted to National-Louis on the basis of the PWU degree. Or, as Gus notes, he didn't get a master's, but an honorary doctorate instead. Or....or....or.....

The post he holds as a major general in the National Guard is a political one as much as a military one. The head of the National Guard in each state is a major general, and is appointed by the governor of each respective state. He could have been appointed without any degrees at all. RJT makes the same mistake he always makes, crediting the holding of an unaccredited degree with the success of the holder. But, as always, he fails to show cause and effect.

 

I never stated he didn’t earn a Master’s degree (he did). I simply noted that he also received an honorary doctorate from National-Louis University.

 

Ooops. I mis-understood. Sorry.

Rich

 

The degree mill why of evaluating credits is to look at the life experience (or pretend to), wave their hands and declare that most or all of the required degree has been meet. The bona fide way to earn life experience credits is to look at a course and prove that the applicant has learned the necessary topics to pass that course through portfolio or testing. This is done for each course.

KW does it the degree mill way. The degree mill way is typically used by the degree mill to trick the applicant into believing that they have earned the full degree. It also seems common for the degree mill graduate to believe that their degree mill is leading edge in that their degree mill accepts "life credits" and that eventually accredited schools will also likely accept "life credits" in their accredited programs. The truth is that there are already many accredited schools that accept credits for life experience and the degree mill "graduates" have just been the sucker for a very old con.

The interesting twist to the old degree mill template used by KW is that they require the student to take 5-7 classes for the degree.

 

I think that five to seven courses is to further make the student believe he is earning a degree. Of course it's a little light compared to the 40 or more courses required by most universities.

 

One person says it's a degree mill. Another says they offer courses to fool their customers. My take is a bit different.

I feel K-WU offers just enough academic content and process to be left alone. No more, no less. When California decided to raise the minimum, it moved its operation (but not its location). It did that repeatedly for the same reason.

K-WU has a lot on the line. It has to keep up appearances enough so that customers and employers don't dump them, that law enforcement and other governmental agencies don't go after them, and so that K-WU doesn't appear in the media too much. Oh, and to keep its graduates from being too embarrased to defend it and its (their) degrees.

As usual, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

 

I don't think you are wrong, Rich.

But the larger point does not involve the amount of courses required, but the academic standards by which the students work is judged, and the quality of the courses themselves. If a school refuses to allow outside accreditors to review its standards, we as students, employers, etc. have nothing to judge its legitimacy by.

I'm sure someone will respond with: "But what about the difference in quality between Cal. State Dominguez Hills and Harvard?" The fact is that both schools have achieved the minimum standards, one school has choosen to exceed those standards.

KW may very well meet those standards, I have no way of knowing. But, I find it odd that a university that meets RA standards would not apply for accreditation. What would be the advantage in remaining non-RA, moving from state to state, not accepting students from California, and handing out diplomas that are illegal in several states? Is this the normal behavior of a for-profit corporation?

Based on the above, I would have to conclude that KW does not, nor does it intend to maintain accredited standards.

 

Another State Approved/Registered College Graduate

Attached is another state approved college graduate, who lists only that doctorate, in all places but Academia:

http://www.rochester.edu/Warner/faculty/facultyeducationaleadership.htm

Depite the distain of many and the lessened utilty, such degrees do appear to have marketplace merit. Lesser than RA, sure; of no value, unlikely.

 

No disagreement here. I don't agree with K-WU's business, nor its practices. I'm just trying to explain them.