Saint Regis University

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by atlas1212, Jun 25, 2003.

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  1. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    John talked to Mary Hawkins, Provost of Bellevue. The Provost is, IIRC, the 2nd-in-command, if you will. She categorically stated that Bellevue would not accept degrees from St. Regis. She ought to know; Bellevue is considering developing a service for people (like employers) to verify such things. No firm plans, yet.

    John and Mary were the two adjuncts on my Union committee, BTW. :)
     
  2. Dennis Ruhl

    Dennis Ruhl member

    Why don't universities establish a committee to evaluate foreign schools and publish an annual report for their own use and for libraries.

    For the most part the information could come from sources within each foreign country.

    For countries that prove to be unreliable accreditors (eg Liberia), asking the major universities within the country what programs they accept plus applying some common sense judgement would work.

    Course by course evaluations might still be done by outside evaluators, but hopefully acceptance of poor quality degrees would be minimized.

    If someone is left off the list by other than accident, offer them the option of applying for American accreditation.
     
  3. atlas1212

    atlas1212 New Member

    I did not fabricate ANY claim. They said in that email, if you can read, that the degree from St. Regis in LIBERIA is the equiv. to a US degree. This tells me that someone knows St. Regis, and has researched it to the point of knowing it's foreign and has decided that their degrees are equivalent to US degrees. I don't give a crap what the Provost said. What did YOUR research find Huffman? I doubt the Provost sits there and approves every admission. I'm getting sick of your attitude. You are just such a moron that any school that bothered to give you a degree should be ashamed of themselves.
     
  4. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    My research has discovered that SRU is a degree mill and it showed that you fabricated a claim. Of course that much was already known when you started this thread. John Bears post regarding what the Bellevue Provost said, just confirmed it.

    Specifically, your fabricated claim was,
    "Bellevue and UIU told me specifically that this topic has been reviewed and that SRU has been found to meet the standards and equivalence of a US RA degree."

    This is known to be false for three primary reasons.
    1. The email that you did post did NOT substantiate the above fabrication.
    2. The Bellevue Provost told John Bear that Bellevue did NOT accept SRU degrees.
    3. Any RA school that investigated SRU degrees would have to conclude that they are inferior to real accredited degrees.

    I'm really rather surprised that you still feel that you have any wiggle room left. Perhaps if you would just accept what you yourself has stated as facts, that I'm able to magically "bully" the truth out of people due to my sophisticated superior assholery powers, you might be able to accept the truth of the situation. (Calling someone a moron shows your own crude inferior assholery powers.)

    (jerk-jerk, chain rattle :))
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 16, 2003
  5. Obviously the Provost is part of this far-reaching conspiracy. :rolleyes:
     
  6. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator Staff Member

    What that tells me, assuming that your e-mail exchange with Bellevue was real (which I highly doubt), is that someone dropped the ball in actually checking out SRU.

    Considering that the Provost of a university is usually in the top 5 of the chain of command, you probably should care.

    Probably not, but when the Provost issues an opinion concerning school regulations, you can bet the farm that it trumps any "decision" made by an Admissions Counselor.

    I'm sure you read the Terms of Service regarding this board before you registered. The above is a violation, and one more violation will result in your username and IP address being banned.

    Have a nice day. :)


    Bruce
     
  7. roysavia

    roysavia New Member

    Two Bachelor of Arts graduates submit their applications to a RA university for graduate studies in Statistics. For simplicity sake, let's say SUNY. They both want to earn a Masters degree in Applied Statistics.
    Both applications are received by the admissions committee for review. The first applicant is a Boston College graduate. High GPA and an honors student. He/she has excellent references and has participated in numerous academic activities during his/her undergraduate years. (I need not mention that this individual spent four years in college and acquired 120 credit hours).

    The second graduate is a St. Regis University graduate. The applicant does not have any references. The transcripts come from a university that confers degrees based on secondary information (from a resume). There is no way to verify the accuracy of the information submitted to SRU. SRU is accredited by the Liberian government.

    If you were the registrar or a member of the admissions committee which candidate would you choose? Which candidate would you hire to work for you? The decision is very clear........
     
  8. MarkIsrael@aol.com

    [email protected] New Member

  9. kf5k

    kf5k member

    You are correct as to what should happen, but that wasn't the question this thread asks. As to the question of accredited American schools accepting SRU transcripts and degrees, I believe some do. As long as SRU can claim to be recognized by the Liberian government someone is going to make the sell, it's about money. More students mean more money coming through. Some schools have all the students they can handle, and others don't. The more desperate a school gets to bring in cash the more they'll hold their noses and take students without proper credentials. SRU shouldn't be accepted by anyone, but I bet a few are getting through, quietly and without fanfare.
     
  10. roysavia

    roysavia New Member

    Actually I did address the question. When regionally accredited universities begin accepting transcripts from oganizations like SRU, the CHEA and the regional accreditor need to intervene by auditing the university's admission policies. If they are in non-compliance, then federal funding should be "yanked".
     
  11. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    In a nutshell, you've described why I don't believe the kf5k scenario is likely to happen. I'm not saying that an academic fraud has never tricked an accredited school but what I do not believe likely is that it would be a secret unofficial policy to let them slip through. To much is at stake.
     
  12. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    The discussion of SRU began with a claim. The claim was that many U.S. universities would admit graduates of SRU based on their SRU degrees. Atlas-somebody (no real name made available) claimed to have contacted several schools who said they would. When asked, he named two: Bellevue and Union. He also provided text from what he claims is an e-mail from someone at Bellevue supporting this contention. (I'm deliberately being vague to accommodate Atlas' difficult-to-follow story.)

    In order to establish such a claim, the burden of proof is on the one making the claim. Plus, the support offered must be verifiable in some way to give others conifdence in its veracity.

    Has Atlas-somebody met this burden of proof? I say no.

    He claimed many schools, but only offered two. Of them, he only offered any specific information on one: Bellevue. John Bear followed up with someone at Bellevue who would know (and who he knows): Mary Hawkins. Dr. Hawkins said "no." Atlas-somebody suggested that schools would likely change their tunes once Dr. Bear intervened with his mighty influence. Atlas-somebody did not offer any proof that (a) Dr. Bear had such influence or (b) that he used it.

    Everyone knows who John Bear is. No one knows who Atlas-somebody is. I know both Bear and Hawkins, and many people know me. Again, no one knows Atlas-somebody.

    Finally, we could turn to written evidence. But there is only the absence of it. Saint Regis University is not listed in any reputable reference guide on foreign insititutions. They cannot even claim the Berne-style "end around." (This despite Atlas-somebody's contention that schools would admit SRU grads based on SRU's accreditation, even if by mistake.) In this case, a lack of evidence is evidence: it shows there is no basis for Atlas-somebody's claims.

    Bottom Line: A claim of many, reduced to two with only one "supported." That support was refuted by two experts in the field (Bear and Hawkins, not me), including one at the school in question (Bellevue). No reference or written material exists to lend support to the question. Such absence indicates there would be no opportunity for the error Atlas-somebody claims could occur.

    Verdict: DENIED!

    Next case. :D
     
  13. kf5k

    kf5k member



    "GOD" has spoken, subject closed!!! :)
     
  14. flipkid

    flipkid New Member

    I know you may be joking, and are probably being just a tad sarcastic, but I have never read where Rich has called himself "God" on this subject. Others sing his praises, but he has taken the low road. He has experience and education in the DL field...he expresses those thoughts and does not back down or change his mind easily...he is an excellent researcher on these issues...that does not make him God. Likewise you have strong opinions which are usually contrary to his...you don't back down easily...this does not make you "God" either.

    This is his opinion...take it or leave it. Many times I do not agree with Rich, but I can not deny that the information is good. I do not look to change his mind. You and I are in the minority opinion on this forum. Namecalling, even in fun, does nothing to advance your arguements. Logic, and solid info will. If that is presented and it is still not accepted you must learn to do what many people of color have been told to do regarding tests in the public schools. You know the real answer and you know the answer they want you to give. Give the answer you must to pass your test, because they got their education...you still have to get yours. But know in your heart what is true often is not on the test.

    If you know what is true in your heart, don't let the rest bug ya!
     
  15. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    God is silent. Now, if we could just get man to shut up!

    Woody Allen
     
  16. kf5k

    kf5k member

    The position stated by Atlas still is present. Are accredited schools, at this time, accepting degrees from SRU. What may or may not be done in the future to prevent it is another thing. I would like to know if anyone has any proof other than conjecture that Atlas is right or wrong about someone in admissions telling him that they would accept SRU degrees? He gave a name in admissions. Does she exist? Did she give him the information he claims? If anyone has any hard information about Bellevue and what Atlas says occured. I would be interested in hearing it. As far as more guesses or hunches, what's the point.
     
  17. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    I would not be at all surprised if you got someone at a University admissions to answer a hypothetical question about an SRU degree in the positive. I did not question this part of the assertion that started this thread.

    I sent email to Bellevue and to UIU and did not receive a response. I posted my email to UIU in this thread and my email to Bellevue was very similar. I didn't pursue it any further because the Bellevue Provost responded in the negative which I believe resolved the issue that was in contention.
     
  18. kf5k

    kf5k member

    I believe that you are correct about the facts. Bellevue won't accept a degree from SRU. I also believe that Atlas did in fact ask someone at Bellevue and received a quick answer that was incorrect, but this was not his fault. Sad that this simple post could degenerate into such a blood bath. I may believe someone is telling a lie, but before saying so I should be very sure, and not just go with my opinion. Not talking to you Bill, just thinking out loud. We should all slow down a little on judgements until we have the facts before us. A person should be innocent until "Proven" guilty, even on a forum.
     
  19. Tommy Fisher

    Tommy Fisher New Member

  20. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    Who could ask for anything more? But then, most American accreditors do not eat body parts from their vanquished competitors.

    You know what I wish? I wish some west and east African GAAP universities offered distance learning. It would help obliterate this shame.
     

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