Rushmore University

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by AuditGuy, Aug 24, 2012.

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  1. RAM PhD

    RAM PhD Member

    Classic quote!
     
  2. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Post deleted by me (referred to re-naming branch campuses) not on-topic.

    Johann
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 27, 2012
  3. scottae316

    scottae316 New Member

    No, but how many states have a "University of Pittsburgh" besides Pennsylvania, none so it would be a bit redundant.
     
  4. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Indeed it is JUST that, Lerner - speculation, if you're talking of a CMI degree OR transmutation of a Rushmore degree into gold. "Wildly misguided" speculation, perhaps, just as the late Dr. Cox has been characterized. CMI cannot confer degrees in the UK. It doesn't appear to have permission to tutor for any other British school's degrees either. Here's the page. It is neither a "listed" nor a "recognized" body - ergo no British degrees, by hook, crook or any other circuitous methodology.

    Recognised bodies | Policies | BIS

    As I see it, CMI's "endorsement" - as Rushmore worded it - of any Rushmore paperwork is meaningless, as far as degree recognition goes. I have shown you specifically that CMI does NOT have the power to confer degrees, so how can its "endorsement" add recognition to a Rushmore degree?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 27, 2012
  5. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Before you counter the above, Lerner - yes, MAYBE the right CMI cert. or diploma MIGHT get someone advanced standing in a UK University program, someplace -- or not. In any case, he/she certainly won't be simply exchanging it for a degree! Not by a long shot! As to "endorsement" by CMI of Rushmore degrees --Hmph! What good is "endorsement" from a school that can't confer degrees?

    Try telling UK-NARIC or NACES that your Rushmore "degree" is "endorsed." Might as well get an apostille, while you're at it! I'll print you both, for the same price! :jester:

    Johann
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 27, 2012
  6. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    His widow, Mrs. Iola Cox and Prof. Alan Guinn constitute the Board of Governors now, it appears.

    Board of Governors

    Johann
     
  7. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    As I wrote recently - of a different school:

    I think that applies, here.

    Johann
     
  8. GeeBee

    GeeBee Member

    But Wake Forest University is NOT in Wake Forest, North Carolina. It's in Winston-Salem, NC.
     
  9. airtorn

    airtorn Moderator Staff Member

    It was founded in there and moved to its current location 60-70 years ago. Your point is?

    Also, Rushmore = mill
     
  10. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    OKAY - If you're going back to "locations" here's my (deleted) contribution, direct from the bit-bucket:
    We'll have to leave California alone, if we're tampering with "branch campuses!"

    UC Berkeley, Davis, Irvine, Los Angeles, Merced, Riverside, San Diego, Santa Barbara, Santa Cruz

    And the two dozen-or-so Cal. State campuses listed here: http://www.calstate.edu/search_find/campus.shtml

    And yes - Rushmore=mill. Not much to consider, except they LIKE to make their students DO "real" stuff - create products, write books, start/run businesses, etc. If any are successful, Rushmore is quick to take credit - and/or appoint their new grads to Faculty.

    There! :jester:

    Johann
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 27, 2012
  11. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member Staff Member

    And California University of Pennsylvania
     
  12. airtorn

    airtorn Moderator Staff Member

    ...which is located in California, PA.

    Rushmore = mill
     
  13. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member


    CMI is an Awarding Body, which is a recognised organisation offering qualifications by the regulatory authorities. CMI is regulated by Ofqual in England, Wales and Northern Ireland and by the Scottish Qualification Authority in Scotland.

    This means NACES member agencies will provide a positive evaluation to a diploma from CMI.


    Level 6 Diploma is equivalent to US RA Bachelor of Management degree. I seen evaluation of WES attesting this.
    Level 7 Diploma is equivalent to Misters degree.
    One need tohave all the previous or equivalent to them.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 27, 2012
  14. scottae316

    scottae316 New Member

    Indiana University of Pennsylvania and California University of Pennsylvania, both have nice campuses. :biggrin: And both have Pennsylvania in their name.
     
  15. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly

    Maybe. But either way, the point is that the location thing should apply to all schools or none of them. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
     
  16. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Yes - an AWARDING BODY - but it is NOT a RECOGNISED BODY (that can confer its own degrees) or a LISTED BODY - (one that can tutor for degrees of other schools.) Get it? ZERO DEGREES!

    http://www.bis.gov.uk/policies/higher-education/recognised-uk-degrees/recognised-bodies

    CMI can make a number of awards -- none of them a British degree. Equivalent, maybe, depending on the level and who's talking... but not a degree in and of itself. That's expressly forbidden.

    If NACES says a certain high-level CMI (non-degree) award is "equivalent" to a US RA degree, that's fine!- BUT they don't present you with a US degree! CMI simply cannot award ANY degrees, whatever the value or "equivalency" of its fine certs diplomas etc.

    So -- Its "endorsement" of a degree issued elsewhere (e.g.Rushmore) is still meaningless, as CMI is neither an accreditor nor a degree-granting school.

    As our esteemed mods might say, Rushmore = mill. CMI = good school, but no degrees. Good schools should not endorse milled degrees. Bad karma!

    Johann
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 28, 2012
  17. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Yes - but it is NOT a RECOGNISED BODY (that can confer its own degrees) or a LISTED BODY - (one that can tutor for degrees of other schools.)

    CMI can make a number of awards -- none of them a British degree. Equivalent, maybe, depending on the level and who's talking... but not a degree in and of itself. That's expressly forbidden.

    If NACES says a CMI award is "equivalent" to a US RA degree, that's fine!- BUT they don't present you with a US degree! CMI simply cannot award ANY degrees, whatever the value of its fine certs diplomas etc.

    So -- Its "endorsement" of a degree issued elsewhere (e.g.Rushmore) is still meaningless, as CMI is neither an accreditor nor a degree-granting school.

    Johann
     
  18. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Johann, I'm not arguing that CMI awards are Degrees. CMI is Recognized, Accredited Awarding Body.

    CMI awards qualifications. In some countries post secondary education has two routs.
    1. College, University, Institute higher education that leads to university degree.

    2. Vocational Qualification or Higher Vocational Qualifications that can lead up to the highest level awards possible, i.e compatible to Masters and Doctoral level.

    UK happen to have this dual system and QA recognition systems to regulate the vocation qualifications.

    How many jobs are there that people who earned HND, Edexel or City and Guilds etc and work as Engineers.

    Some universities even offer dual tracks.

    Example
    LCCA - Undergraduate


    Our degree programmes take three years to complete, if studying full time, and have a mixture of theoretical and practical elements to the programme which are so important when gaining a competitive edge


    Our two year HND programmes are vocationally focused, full time courses, designed to prepare you for direct entry into employment or to continue on to study a one year ‘top-up’ programme providing you with the ideal route to complete a degree award.

    US equivalent to Associate Degree would be Foundation Degree in UK but there is a Vocational equivalent the Higher National Diploma.

    CMI offers awards, certificated and diplomas that are ofqual recognized, accredited and regulated.
    Ofqual - Home

    The Register of Regulated Qualifications - The Register
    The register provides database of recognized UK qualifications.

    Here is CMI accreditation listing of the recognized qualifications.
    The Register of Regulated Qualifications - View Organisation : CMI (Chartered Management Institute)

    For example

    The Register of Regulated Qualifications - View Qualification : CMI Level 4 Diploma in Management and Leadership (QCF)
    Is equivalent to US 4 year Business Degree year 2.


    The Register of Regulated Qualifications - View Qualification : CMI Level 5 NVQ Diploma in Management (QCF)

    Is equivalent to US 4 year Business Degree year 3.

    etc

    I'm not stating that Rushnore can award this diplomas, I don't know what is the extent
    of the CMI recognition to Rushmore.

    But if they can?????? Then these are highly recognized diplomas in UK and abroad.

    NARIC, ENIC in all European countries recognize CMI qualifications as meeting academic requirements for different levels of degrees.
    In Finland, Poland, Romania etc CMI Diploma level 6 is equivalent to their 4 year university degree.

    NACES USA members also provide positive evaluations that allows holders of such qualifications access to Graduate schools in USA.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 29, 2012
  19. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Lerner, I'm fully aware of all that stuff - HND's, top-up programs etc. I'm no stranger to the British system.

    Yes -CMI diplomas are "highly recognized" as you say. But - as I say, (and the Higher Ed. Act says, too) they are not degrees, even if they are deemed "equivalent." And yes, a HND from wherever may be equivalent to a Foundation Degree - but it is not a Foundation Degree, or any type of degree -even though it can "do the work" of a degree - get you into a "top-up" program, so you can earn a Bachelor's. I know all that.

    There are diplomas and there are degrees. They may sometimes be equivalent - but never the same. Schools - no matter how good - that cannot award degrees have no business "endorsing" degrees, as they are neither degree-granting nor accreditors. That goes double for the "endorsement" of spoofy degrees like Rushmore's. As I said - BAD KARMA!

    RUSHMORE=MILL.
    DIPLOMA IS NOT DEGREE (Even if Equivalent)
    RUSHMORE DEGREE=NO GOOD.
    CMI=GOOD SCHOOL
    CMI =NOT A DEGREE-GRANTING SCHOOL, (no matter how "equivalent" their DIPLOMAS etc.)

    Therefore, CMI shouldn't EVER be "endorsing" Rushmore "Degrees" for 2 reasons:

    (a) CMI is well-regarded. Rushmore "degrees" are not. CMI could damage its reputation. (Remember Uni. of Wales debacle?)
    (b) CMI - despite its valuable diplomas etc - is not a degree-granting school. "Endorsing" degrees? Danger, Will Robinson!

    This is a case of a school that doesn't confer degrees being far better than one which does. They should keep it that way!


    Johann
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 29, 2012
  20. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    All stated is correct, but if used as degree to enter Masters degree program then its treated as a degree even if by definition its not.

    I do agree with you assessment of RU and rest my case.
    My arguing was about CIM. I highly value UK qualifications and hold some :)

    How it affects RU I have no idea. If RU has the right to grant such diplomas then it graduates may enter higher ed and graduate schools as if they hold degree.

    In one year later they can hold UK Masters DEGREE.
     

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