Robert de Sorbon evaluation

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by Alan Contreras, Mar 9, 2005.

  1. Alan Contreras

    Alan Contreras New Member

    The Oregon Department of Justice contracted with AACRAO's international evaluation team to advise the state as to the actual status of the entity called University Francophone Robert de Sorbon (also uses a couple of similar names). The relevant part of the evaluation's conclusions appears below. The complete evaluation is not yet a public record owing to its use by the Department of Justice in an ongoing investigation.

    From AACRAO:

    "The French "law" that Sorbon keeps referring to (with an implication that the 'law' gives Sorbon authority to grant degrees) is a law that permits French institutions to award degrees based in part on work or life experience. But, the law doesn't grant Sorbon (or anyone else) authority to grant degrees. Only recognized institutions can award degrees and we find nothing to indicate that Sorbon has been recognized in France (or anywhere else). Interestingly enough, amongst the volumes of papers provided is the documentation related to applying for recognition, but no recognition. Much of the other documentation appears to be related to Sorbon as a business."

    In addition, AACRAO notes that Sorbon claims that several different evaluators recognize it, when in fact this appears to be one person flying several flags of convenience. Also, French law allows only certain schools to use the term "university" and Sorbon is not on that list. It is illegal in France for an entity not on the list to use the term in its name. Sorbon is not on the French list of universities authorized to use life experience as the basis for issuance of academic credit. Further, AACRAO concludes that Sorbon's claim of accreditation from the government of the Comoros islands is baseless.

    Sorbon has claimed that ODA has inappropriately listed it on our web site as a non-university because it has French authority to issue degrees. Based on the AACRAO evaluation, whch reached the same conclusion that many others have, we will continue to treat it as having no legal authority to issue degrees that the state of Oregon must recognize.

    The entity appears to be a Maine business, but the actual location of its ownership is not clear.

    Under Oregon law, a foreign degree-granting entity that cannot demonstrate that it has the legal authority to issue degrees from a recognized government is by definition a diploma mill. The entity called Robert de Sorbon, having failed to meet the standard, is therefore a diploma mill under Oregon law.

    For this reason, degrees issued by Sorbon are considered false and fraudulent, are banned for all uses in Oregon and cannot be used with a disclaimer under the Kennedy-Western settlement standard. Any use of such fake degrees in Oregon will be referred to the fraud unit of the Oregon Department of Justice.

    This determination applies only to uses in the State of Oregon. Sorbon may not be a diploma mill under laws elsewhere, but it sure isn't a French university of any subspecies.
  2. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Active Member

    Thank you for the information, although I must admit that I had already "jumped to the conclusion" that Robert de Sorbon University was a degree mill. It is nice to have further and more definitive information that corroborates that conclusion.

    Now, where is that academic fraud that was shilling for this degree mill? :p
  3. uncle janko

    uncle janko member


    Well, well, well. Don't blame Janko, Ray. Don't blame Bill, Ray. Don't blame degreeinfo, Ray. Don't blame Alan/ODA, Ray. We are but messengers. At last, conclusive ACCRAOCY (sorry) about Sore Buns. Thanks, Alan.
  4. Jack Tracey

    Jack Tracey New Member

    Nice work, Alan et al.
  5. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Active Member

    I don't understand. Sorbon is defended heavily over in Jamesville. Certainly that uneducated degree mill shill and his cronies are a much more credible source than is a state agency (the ODA) and a professional society made up of members who make such decisions (AACRAO)! What gives? ;)
  6. galanga

    galanga New Member

    it can't be a spinal reflex because...

    ...that would imply membership in chordata. There is fierce thrashing and hooting elsewhere concerning AACRAO's evaluation of UFRS!

    Names are being called! The race card, nay, verily the race gauntlet has been flung down!

    The enraged goatbaggers have gone ballistic. Yes, that must be it: projectile motion, pure free-fall save for air resistance. (No spine is required: blivits freefall as effectively as reptiles.)

    To lawyers! To lawyers! The lawsuits are coming! Oh, wait, no, maybe that's not a good idea. Discovery in civil suits... uh oh. Documents from the dogcloset, can't let those get out. All those Airborne Express waybills... and loose cannons setting up satellite operations abroad and telling tales...

    Stay tuned!
  7. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Active Member

    BTW, the clucking has already begun in Jamesville.
  8. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    mighty white of 'em

    D & D appear miffed.

    It was not AACRAO, nor Alan Contreras, who found Liberia wounded and bleeding, and did their best to drag the Lone Star through the mud. Fortunately, there are enough very brave and very black Liberians who care about civil society, the reconstruction of education, and the good name of the Republic, that this can be dismissed as the howls of very white bush heathens.

    Somewhere, old Shad is amused.
  9. galanga

    galanga New Member

    Re: mighty white of 'em

    I always wondered about the way VAE became such a goatbag fad all of a sudden. Do you think it has also engendered certain bonds of loyalty among les sacs-chevres, leading to the howling?

    And how pro-Africa is it to photo-lop the heads off Caucasian-Men-In-Suits in order to provide mounting flanges for the Heads-Of-African-Men? Oh, but that's D, not M we're talking about. Or could it be... nah, that's a ridiculous idea.
  10. Lerner

    Lerner Active Member

    AACRAO is one such body that is known to be credible and as was mentioned before and ODA mission is nobel.

    I remember ECE - they evaluated EBS of HWU MBA as US
    Associate degree comparible.
    Many tried to reason with ECE including Dr Bear.

    I visited the other site and read their reply .

    I trust ODA and AACRAO and will investigate more on my own.


    What is this document from the Academy of Poitiers,

    They say

    That's exactly the required by law final validation of Robert de Sorbon as a degree-granting institution of higher education, under the supervision and control of its local academy.
    All colleges in France, private and public, are under the direct supervision and control of their local academies that are in fact the regional arms of the French Ministry of Education.
    It is not an application for recognition, but a document verifying that the final on site inspection required by law has been conducted by the regional authority and license to operate legally has been granted.

    Can some one explain?

    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 10, 2005
  11. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    l'Académie, l'Académie, toujours l'Académie

    Sure. It's a bit like a county school board having to sign off on any educational institution in the county. It's not quality control, just a Gleichschaltung between local and national bureaucracy IF the national bureaucracy deigns to grant recognition to a given institution--which has not happened here. Absent that, it's just a local operating permit, nothing more.

    The Sore Buns nonsense relies on foreigners (i.e. non-French) making a silly verbal-conceptual link between l'Académie française (prestigious, since 1635, blah blah blah--but not an accrediting authority) and l'Académie de whatever, in this case Poitiers. In other words, the setup relies on foreigners not being aware of the French propensity, indicative of their highly centralised government and adoration of the trappings of highly centralised government, to confer nomenclature on local bodies which is redolent of the awe-inspiring centre.

    Think of the county sheriff, say, being called the county minister of defence. To American ears, such a thing would sound risible. To the French, similar terminological gestures simply confer the full dignity and majesty of government upon its local manifestations.
  12. bullet

    bullet New Member

    take it slow - dolly perdon


    Which would be the correct entity in France that could grant authority to Robert Sorbon College to operate legally?

    Which would be the correct entity in France that could grant Robert Sorbon the authority to do this VAE (it seems to be a different learning system)?


    Instead of AACRAO, Dr. Contreras could write the French Authorities and obtain the status of the Robert Sorbon College.
    With this reply, Alain Michael would have no wiggle room and "alas" the end of the none-sense.

    With a french government letter............good-bye Robert.

  13. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Active Member

    Re: take it slow - dolly perdon

    Yeah, but AACRAO is an authoritative source, better suited for this task than a layperson. They're a disinterested party, skilled in such matters, and in a position to act on their findings. I'd take their evaluation.
  14. Alan Contreras

    Alan Contreras New Member

    AACRAO based its evaluation on the French government documents provided by the Sorbon Object for the express purpose of demonstrating that the Object is a French degree-granter.

    The Object failed to achieve its purpose with the documents provided. These were translated and evaluated by a person with good knowledge of the French postsecondary system. Careful research into the French degree-granting system showed that the Object does not have the legal authority to issue degrees or call itself a university in France.

    If the Object has additional documents from the French government, AACRAO would be glad to evaluate those, too, and we are of course ready to revise our conclusions based on any new, accurate information provided to us.

    If the Object wants to challenge AACRAO's evaluation in court, it is free to do so. The Object needs to realize that the AACRAO evaluation is a separate document from the ODA conclusions and is now a public record. The AACRAO evaluation is being distributed all over the U.S. as of yesterday. We will soon have it on our web site.

    If the Object wants to challenge ODA's conclusion that its degrees are invalid under ORS 348.609(a) and OAR 583-050, it is free to do so by contacting my office with new information or by going to court.

    If the Object chooses to go to court, it will, of course, have to reveal exactly who owns it and where they are located, to whom degrees are issued and under what conditions, and any information about the nature of its approvals. This will all become a public record. It will need to defend this material in public against expert witnesses for AACRAO and the State of Oregon.

    The State of Oregon is ready to defend our decision in any appropriate venue. So is our attorney.
  15. galanga

    galanga New Member

    what's a vowel entre amis?

    So west of the Rockies and south of the Washington-Oregon border we have Objet Francophone Robert de Sorbon, OFRS.

    North of the border and close to the Idaho panhandle we still have UFRS.

    And did Azad really end up in the slammer, by the way?
  16. bullet

    bullet New Member

    thank you

    Dr. Contreras,

    Thank you. Now I understand the way AARACO did the evaluation.
  17. Alan Contreras

    Alan Contreras New Member

    Sorbon sent the Oregon Department of Justice (DOJ) a set of material that it said proved its legal authority to issue degrees in France. DOJ sent this material to AACRAO for evaluation at my recommendation.

    Sorbon found out about this and filed a baseless complaint against the ODA attorney in DOJ for daring to show AACRAO the documentation. What an injustice, sending the material to the best-known international degree evaluation office in the United States....

    AACRAO reviewed the material provided by Sorbon and concluded that each of the items either (a) meant nothing or (b) did not mean what Sorbon said it did.
  18. galanga

    galanga New Member


    The OFRS lawyer needs a better curtain rod for his dogcloset.
  19. Lerner

    Lerner Active Member

    All I can say is that ODA is professional and fair.

    From what I read the evaluation carried out professionally and handled with respect.
    Appropriate authorities and subject meter expert agencies involved.

    This tread should increase publics trust and support for ODA efforts.

    For me it’s an opportunity to get a glimpse on a process.

  20. Alan Contreras

    Alan Contreras New Member

    We were informed today that the Canadian government has also researched the nature of Robert de Sorbon and also concluded that it is not a genuine degree-granting institution.

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